Electroconvulsive Therapy Causes Permanent Amnesia and Cognitive Deficits
Category: ECT Information and News and ECT Effects and Statistics and Studies and Patient Info and Informed Consent and Shock Machine Manufacturers
ect.org note: This article is appearing in numerous publications and websites, so to avoid repeating the same information again and again, an ongoing list of publications will be posted below.
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Forbes
Electroconvulsive Therapy Causes Permanent Amnesia and Cognitive Deficits, Prominent Researcher Admits
12.21.06, 3:38 PM ET
NEW YORK, Dec. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — In a stunning reversal, an article in the journal Neuropsychopharmacology in January 2007 by prominent researcher Harold Sackeim of Columbia University reveals that electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) causes permanent amnesia and permanent deficits in cognitive abilities, which affect individuals’ ability to function.
“[T]his study provides the first evidence in a large, prospective sample that adverse cognitive effects can persist for an extended period, and that they characterize routine treatment with ECT in community settings,” the study notes.
For the past 25 years, ECT patients were told by Sackeim, the nation’s top ECT researcher, that the controversial treatment doesn’t cause permanent amnesia and, in fact, improves memory and increases intelligence. Psychologist Sackeim also taught a generation of ECT practitioners that permanent amnesia from ECT is so rare that it could not be studied. He asserted that most people who said the treatment erased years of memory were mentally ill and thus not credible.
The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) estimates that more than 3 million people have received ECT over the past generation. “Those patients who reported permanent adverse effects on cognition have now had their experiences validated,” said Linda Andre, head of the Committee for Truth in Psychiatry, a national organization of ECT recipients.
Since the mid-1980s, Sackeim worked as a consultant to the ECT device manufacturer Mecta Corp. He never revealed his financial interest in ECT to NIMH, as required by federal law, and, until 2002, did not reveal it to New York officials as required by state law. Neuropsychopharmacology has endured negative publicity over its failure to disclose financial conflicts of journal authors, resulting in the editor’s resignation and a promise to disclose such conflicts in the future; yet there is no disclosure of Sackeim’s long-term relationship with Mecta, nor did Sackeim disclose his financial conflict when his NIMH grant was renewed to 2009 at approximately $500,000 per year.
The six-month study followed about 250 patients in New York City hospitals, an unusually large number; most ECT studies are based on 20 to 30 patients. Sackeim’s previously published studies were short term, making it impossible to assess long-term effects. “However, in other contexts over the years — court depositions, communications with mental health officials, and grant protocols — Sackeim has claimed to follow up patients for as long as five years. This raises serious questions as to how long he has actually known of the existence and prevalence of permanent amnesia and why it wasn’t revealed until now,” Andre said.
Besides finding that ECT routinely causes substantial and permanent amnesia, the study contradicts Sackeim’s oft-published statements that ECT increases intelligence and that patients who report permanent adverse effects are mentally ill.
“The study is a stunning self-repudiation of a 25-year career,” Andre said.
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Other publications that have picked up the story:
Dec 22 2006:
Forbes
Medical News Today
Brietbart
Dallas News
Kron.com
MedicalDevices.org
TXCN.com - Healthcare & Hospitals
WFAA
Philadelphia Weekly
Genetic Engineering News
Pharma-Lexicon
Added: Dec 22, 2006 5:05 pm | Trackback URI | Email This Post | Print
Wooot!
i love ect. i want it-sooo bad
I can’t get anyone to believe I have severe memory loss. I lost the mommy years and have such an empty void to deal with.
I had ECT about five years ago. I have lost so much memory its unbelievable. It definitely didn’t help me and the doctor’s didn’t even call the insurance company to get prior approval! I will always be angry at the people who talked me into having it done!
my sis had ect done-cuz my mom wants to avoid everything
My insurance company denied approval of Vagal Nerve Stimulation last year because I never had shock therapy. They also said that VNS was experimental. So I had a series of 12 shock treatments over three weeks. I feel that I was coerced/bribed/forced to get ETC. Because of the memory loss and difficulty recalling recent events, I cannot do my job. I am now on short-term disability.
Also, I was not told beforehand that I would have to have maintenance ETC to stay depression free. This makes me very upset. CAN I SUE THE INSURANCE COMPANY? (I don’t want to sue my doctor–I like him.)
My memeory and short-term recall are very sparse. I went to a conference last month. I remember virtually nothing–not even the meals. If my colleague mentions one of the topics, I may or may not remember it.
I do not want to have maintenance ECT. It’s possible that my insurance company will change their policy within the next 30 days, but I’m afraid of losing some of the benefit of being depression free that I paid such a huge price for.
My girlfriend had forced ECT in the late 80’s. She has moderate memory loss. We just recently were able to get a copy of all of her medical records- there is so much she does not remember or had no idea had happened. In present time, we end up having the same converstations over and over again about every 3 months. Don’t know if this is related to the ECT treatments or not.
Whenever she drives somewhere I have to hand write her directions and draw a map…even if she has been to that place a hundred times, or lives in the area- she never remembers. Directions also have to be reversed in order for her to get back home. She tells me that she will be driving and feel that she is going the right way, but then her mind tells her to turn or go a different way. Don’t know if this is related to ECT also. Can be very frustrating.
I had ECT this past March (yes a whole month in the psych unit). It has greatly helped me, but I have noticed several things about myself which have changed with my memory, speach/train of thought. I have just now started to really do research on the effects of ECT, mainly weeding out what’s true and what’s not. I have a great psychiatrist who is honest and has stated that these issues are related to my ECT treatments, but should resolve with time.
But how much time? When can I go back to work?
I work with mentally and physically challanged adults which means I need to be quick mentally and physically.
Am I gonna have to change my career in the medical field yet again?
Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t change having ECT for anything, but people really need to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the side effects before undergoing treatment.
I wish you all the best in your own recovery.
Why shouldn’t ECT be availble to those who have no other options? I’m not saying it’s something that should be taken lightly, but for some, this may be their only hope for a normal life. Memory problems? Cognition problems? maybe so. But what’s that compared to living in absolute misery?
I think if some of these people who’ve had ECT could remember how distraught they were before treatment, they might reconsider some of their negative feelings.
My wife had years of ECT treatments before we met. She also had a few after we married (against my better judgement). My heated discussions with her doctor about the effect on her fell on deaf ears. Both hers and the doctors. The event that finally convinced her otherwise; after a treatment, she had no memory of our lives together or our marriage. Needless to say, the doctor still was not convinced. We have another psychiatrist now.
I suffer from major depression and was hospitalized with nearly constant suicidal thoughts from Dec’01 through Mar’02. I was put on all sorts of medications, none of which helped before they decided to try ects. I had 18 ECT treatments in Feb-Mar’02, which ultimately helped reduce the frequency and strength of the suicidal impulses.
As side effects from the ECT, not only did I lose most short-term memory of that time period (some memory, but more of as a dream, and just fragments) but also of the 6 months prior. I was so impacted that at first I had trouble reading words written in fancy scripts (e.g., gothic) and my ability to process info was so slow that I could not drive for about 6 weeks.
By the time I recovered enough from the depression to resume work (10 months later), I initially found that material I knew as knowledge for years and years was difficult to retrieve. However I found that once I began working with the material again, the knowledge returned, as though the neural networks were being rebuilt.I had short term memory problems but I was generally able to compensate by making scrupulous notes and using various reminder techniques.
My psychiatrist at the time pooh-pooh’ed all these observations. I dropped him when he recommended more ECTs when I continued to have suicidal thoughts instead of exploring other medications. I felt that my state was not as severe as it had been when I previously had ECTs.
My new psychiatrist is great. She acknowledged my ECT side effects were real. She also switched my medications and we were eventually able to eliminate the suicidal thoughts (it’s been 2 years now they’ve been gone). She also treats me with Aricept, an Alzheimer’s medication, which seems to help. I had stopped it for a while, but noticed a definite decline in my memory.
All said, despite the side effects, I strongly feel that that ECTs are beneficial as a last resort. However, I think that the risk of brain injury should be treated proactively and that it should be treated just as brain injury after a stroke is treated.
Some things that I find helpful are doing crossword puzzles, doing Sodoku, doing word games on the internet — I think any of the items touted for brain training are helpful.
The effects of ECT can be brain injury and it should be treated as such. Maybe some day in our lifetime it will be.
After having two to three years of heavy aniti-depressent drugs of every type I began ECT in January of 2006. From then until February of 2007 I had 62 shots of ECT.
I decided on my own to quit. I don’t blame any one but myself. It was keeping me from being suicidal. I asked for it weekly and pretty much enjoyed it. The downside is the memory loss and the cognitive disability.
Both have had huge effect on my life. I am not able to go back to work as much as I’d like to. I’d hope my mind will return to its former state.
I thought about ECT,but my psyc has told me alot of negative things. I am bi polar but I do have a neurological problem such as paying attention and comprehending what I read and try to learn. I have tried ADHD drugs but they create serious side effects for me. Im at a loss. I dont know if ECT is for me I already have a memory problem and it is difficult for me to formulate words for a regular conversation. My brain needs something to get it going.
I looked into the side effects of ECT. Those who support ECT have dulled them down in what appears to be a sales pitch of some magnitude. However they all mention memory loss (they dull it down by modifying it with “transitive”), they mostly mention confusion and cognitive difficulities and often nausea and vomitting.
Next I looked into the known, neurologicaly validated symptoms of brain damage. Lo and behold, the so called “side effects”of ECT are exactly the same as the medically proven and known symptoms of brain damage.
Somehow the psychiatrists who are promoting the use of ECT seem to have these two obvious observations nicely separated as they quite confidently state that ECT does not cause brain damage. In other words they are trying to say the the side effects of ECT, though exactly the same as the symptoms of brain damage, are in fact some other manifestation. Of course to admit that ECT caused brain damage would create the same PR problems and litigation which ECT had in the 1970s. How do they get away with this lies?
[…] There’s no short-term about it. Long-term memory loss and cognitive impairment have now been acknowledged even by proponents of ECT. […]
Matt, is that from “Toxic Psychiatry”? I’m reading that right now and sounds a bit familiar
I am confused by one part of the article. In it there is a claim that “Since the mid-1980s, Sackeim worked as a consultant to the ECT device manufacturer Mecta Corp” but on the other letter to the editor article on this same web site it says that he has never received any compensation from them?
Is there any documentation or proof that he was being paid by both NIMH as well as the equipment manufacturers?
Its just a side issue but if part of the article is flawed it raises questions about the rest of it.
I had weekly ECT from Jan 06 until Mar 07 with several sessions of 6 and 12. My short term memory is almost completely gone and my long term memory is barely in existence. Not much has returned as I was led to believe by the doctors involved. I am having to relearn most everything over. I was a chemist and have lost everything required to return to work. I now would never recommend this procedure to anyone. I had a VNS installed and this has just started to work great. The only down side is it takes up to a year to make a difference but considering Iv’e been dealing with the depression for 30 years that is short. I am presently looking into initiating a lawsuit. Someone has to pay, there are too many of us out there having to deal with amnesia. Best of luck to everyone. Mike
In 2003,I had only seven ECT “sessions” at $3,000 a zap! I have lost much of my long term memory. I am cognitively impaired. I feel like a stranger in the same body. I wouldn’t recommend this procedure on my worst enemy! I stopped after seven sessions for two reasons; first because ECT caused the worst headaches of my life.Second because I was turning into someone I didn’t know. The pain exceeded the gain. The ECT may have stopped me from killing myself at the time, but I still live with chronic depression which has not responded to any known treatment by any psychiatrist.
if anyone can tell me who forces you to go to get E.C.T i would like to know.im doing a depression project and i need info or answers i showld say, my e-mail is, adrian_algor@netzero.com
p.s
thank you for your help
I have never spoken of my own personal experience with ECT. My story began in September of 1997. I was a 34 year old single mother raising two adolescent sons.My employer regularly hosted an annual American Red Cross blood drive.I had been a donor for several years.Three weeks following a blood drive in early September of 1997 I received a letter in the mail from the American Red Cross explaining that I had tested positive for Hepatitis C and advising me to follow up with my own physician.I called my physician immediately and from there…
I began Interferon treatment in early January of 1998. Four months into my treatment I began experiencing severe depression.Although I had a history of episodic depression,this was by far like nothing I had ever experienced before.I had to take a leave from my job and my family physician referred me to a mental health clinic.They diagosed me with bi-polar disorder, borderline personality disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder and started me immediately on anti-depressant’s, anti-psychotic’s and anti-anxiety medications.Not one doctor or psychiatrist considered or entertained the idea that perhaps the interferon treatment I was undergoing might be the underlying cause of this or at the very least, a can of gasoline and a match to light it with on a pile of wood.Instead they sent a social worker to my home three times a week for the next four weeks to drive me (I couldn’t drive a shopping cart around the grocery store let alone a car at that time with all of the medication that I was on) to a hospital (this was a regular medical facility, not a phychiatric hospital)to undergo ECT and brought back home, propped in a chair to await the arrival of my son’s return from school that day. Alone. When I look back at that, I think it’s a miracle my son’s didn’t come home and find me dead in that chair where I was left - alone.At the time the doctor’s told me that I would experience some temperary memory loss but I would recover it within 3-6 months following the treatments. It didn’t happen like that for me. I recovered my early childhood memories up to approximately fifteen years of age but upward or onward from there I have significant gaps. I apologize for being lengthy in this post, but I’d like to share a story with you that really illustrates the impact that this can have and the additional pain and humiliation that it can cause,perhaps someone can relate to this. About a year after the ECT I made an appointment to have my hair done.I hadn’t been into the hair salon for nearly a year by this time.As Neena, my long-time hairdresser was working on my hair she asked me if I made it home alright that night? I had absolutely no idea what on earth she was referring to.Then she asked me if I remembered her pulling over in her car on a cold and rainy night back in mid-November and offering me a ride home?I was still completely blank. “You don’t remember, do you?” she said.All that I could do was shake my head no.
That haunts me to this day. Sadly there are other dangerous situations that occurred that I have very vague memories of. What I wasn’t told was the effect that ECT would have cognitively.This has been devastating. I loved to read, journal and write poetry. I had a fairly broad vocabulary and I was always an accurate speller.I went back to school, a local university, but I found that I couldn’t even read a paragraph and tell you what I had just read - regardless of how many times I read it or wrote it out over and over again in an attempt to save it to my memory. I struggle with problem solving, math and numbers, interpretation of information, skills that I once had are lost to me and I don’t understand how one can forget something that they’ve done hundreds of times, day after day but now you can’t. The information is gone, lost. I sure wish they had backed up my hard drive first. Thanks for letting me post. As I said I don’t talk about this but it felt good to share this with someone.If there’s anyone that may have a similar experience in terms of a hepatitis C diagnosis, adverse interferon treatment reaction and underwent ECT, adding insult to injury, I’d love to hear your story.
“First, do no harm”
(Hippocratic Oath)
Second, to those who come, having already been injured,
“Do no further harm”
@Anna
“First, do no harm”
(Hippocratic Oath)
Second, to those who come, having already been injured,
“Do no further harm”
Third, “Call your stock broker and then go golfing with your buddies.”
Fourth, “Spend another week at your vacation home in Hawaii, paid for with the money of your miserable patients that you view as nothing more than income generators.”
My mother recently recieved 6 shots of ETC, and was supposed to get 9, but her and I felt like that was pushing it.
She is bipolar and depressed, and no medications have worked. She is totally different than she was before the shocks. I feel like she does not respond quickly, she stares a lot, and she doesn’t laugh, cry, or talk that much. However, she knows that she is not herself. It has been three days since the 6th treatment.
Can someone please tell me if this is normal? It’s christmas eve, and I want my mom back!
I suffered depression from as young as I can remember. In 2000 I had a three month manic experience (my first and last) and then fell into a deep depression. I talked with my physician and told him I couldn’t live this way anymore. He contacted the Univ of WA and I was admitted on October 1st and discharged October 31st. I remember very little of my hospital stay or six months before or after. I have no clue who suggested ECT or why and have no memory of consenting. (I’ve been considering lately requesting my records.) I left the hospital on three medications yet was as depressed as when I was admitted but didn’t anyone to know because of the long hospital stay and treatment. A friend of mine (psychologist) suggested a change in one of my medications and overall I have done great since. I definitely have memory loss and trouble learning. I was getting my Human Services degree before ECT but I am unable to retain information so had to give up on that. I have considerable trouble coming up with words in conversation. My thinking is fuzzy as if my head were in a cloud. I do fine in my work because it is fairly repetitious but it took me quite a while to learn my tasks.
I have no idea if ECT, ECT and the medications, or just the medications have made the difference in my life. I do know I have considerable long-term side effects from ECT that have diminished my ability to learn.
Hello, is there anyone who has problems in talking with others? My brother had ECT two years ago and has been suffering to find it so hard to communicate with others other than memory loss. He’d like to know if this problem results from the ECT.
Thank you in advance!
ECT. was deadly for me. It erased whatever memory I had left after neurosurgeries. Now what comments could I possible have about ECT. either positive or negative. Well I have these comments…which are simply facts. These comments were made by a prominent doctor who has been instrumental in taking some of these quacks to court. Mine was not successuful…but please take note. This guy was able to do with no problems whatsoever. In the middle of New York City…openly and without care lied on my papers. Lied to the government on the reason for me to be admitted for Social Security. Lied on my condition attributing it to paranoid schitzophrenia as to the reason for my plight. Not mentioning that had been the result of the neurosurgeries. Thus protecting the prior doctor…: 1) Subjecting the patient to controversial and potentially damaging electroshock
without informed consent. 2) When the patient’s brain function was already impaired, subjecting the patient to another
brain disabling treatment in the form of electroshock.
3) When the patient suffered from an extreme reaction to electroshock, continuing
with the treatment. 4) Failing to inform the patient and family that malpractice had been committed by Dr. xxxxxx 5) Failing to inform the patient and family that the patient would never recover from the brain damage inflicted by the psychosurgery and compounded by the electroshock.
6) Giving electroshock to on obviously incompetent patient with no legal guardian, and therefore without consent. 7) Inappropriately prescribing electroshock for a patient in whom it was unwarranted.
Just a few notes to take into consideration…WHAT A JOKE OF A MEDICAL SYSTEM.
please email me sariemaniez@yahoo.com
i’ve done an ecT project…so i wanna know anything bout what u’ve feel
yes, i had amnesa ..it was tradgical. My friends called me crazy!! or shall i say KRA-ZAY!!! IT MADE ME FORGETHOW TO PEE IT HURT DEEP MAN.WAYY DEEP.FOR ONLY 2 WEEKS THOUGH. THNX FOR HELPING ME DOCTOR RACHAEL.
I have had clinical depression for the last 20 years. I also have agoraphobia. I have some asperger traits.
The question I wanted to ask is from this post:
on 11 Oct 2007 at 10:54 am dinah said:
In 2003,I had only seven ECT “sessions” at $3,000 a zap! I have lost much of my long term memory. I am cognitively impaired. I feel like a stranger in the same body.
The question is about being a stranger in your own body. I want the death, not physical suicide, but the death of my personality. That would be ideal.
My question on the memory loss is to know if it only effects currently stored memories and not the formation of new memories. I would have no problem in losing any or all past memories. I have not had a life worth remembering. I have no dependents or a spouse to worry about forgetting. I am absolutely alone.
The question about the cognitive impairment is it would seem to me that a “scramble” of the neuronal connections, which I presume ECT would cause, would be corrected over time as the brain relearns new knowledge/skill. Also, is their any relation between traditionally measured IQ and the amount of cognitive impairment and the ease in which it alleviates.
Thank you for your time.
My question on the memory loss is to know if it only effects currently stored memories and not the formation of new memories. I would have no problem in losing any or all past memories. I have not had a life worth remembering. I have no dependents or a spouse to worry about forgetting. I am absolutely alone.
Answer: Electricity to your skull will cause different side effects…(as they call them). I call them damages. The only way to understand these damages is to subject yourself to proper assistance. This assistance I am talking about is given in the Rusk Institute in Manhattan. A top rehabilitative place in Manhattan. It will give you neuropscyhological testing to begin with. You will notice many people with shock damage stop at that…Yet in the Rusk they begin with that. Properly given in many,many tests. Weeks to do so. After which you then begin you cognitive remediation classes whereby a poster is placed across from you with the symptoms acquired from your testing. You will have approximately 6 people in your group. The exercises which will be done will bring our your OTHER deficits which the neurosych…test cannot pick out. You will find that from a few symptoms you chart will fill up to approximately 6 to 7 symptoms. Not only will it fill out with these symptoms but you will learn as the classes progress how they effect you life. You will be able to make distinctions between your symptoms. Case in point. I realized after a while that what I thought was a short term memory loss was a distractibility symptom effecting me. In other words I could not remember something not because I had lost it in my memory…but because I had been distracted by other symptoms not allowing my memory to ever be recorded. THAT is why cognitive remediation is necessary for all…Ninuccio.
The question about the cognitive impairment is it would seem to me that a “scramble” of the neuronal connections, which I presume ECT would cause, would be corrected over time as the brain relearns new knowledge/skill.
Answer: Once the damage is caused that particular part of the brain is gone. However other parts will pick up and you may need to understand what is not working anymore and how to compensate for it. Simple as that. Taking notes is one way. But you will need to understand the extent of your memory difficulties before you can take appropriate notes. The Rusk will teach you what notes to take. How to take them. When to review them. Simple as that. Once the brain is damaged…it is damaged. The best you can do is to understand the full extent of your damage…and not by a clinical psychologist…but by “cognitive remediation” classes which can and will bring you face to face with your injury…Ninuccio.
In further thought perhaps the risks are not worth the gain if only because I have had success, at least temporarily in the past, with medicine. It is just so discouraging to keep having these rounds of depression.
I appreciate ninuccio’s discussion. The mere fact that a reputable place prepares one for such dramatic memory loss is discouraging.
I would like to thank ninuccio, the site, and other websites of information that have helped me to reconsider ECT and look once again to medicine, if only for temporary relief.
Thank you for your time.
sun1nil-today, I live with a computer. I cannot live otherwise. When I finally in rehabilitation 1991-95. This was 15 years after my injury. I was finally rehabilitated by a treatment called cognitive remediaiton…(which no one seems to know about). yet that is the treatment for anyone who has sustained any type of head injury. Dr. Stanley Stellar was the doctor who injured me first. Lied and washed his hands. I was a goner already. Then Dr. Lother Kalinowsky right here in Manhattan got his hands on me. Destroyed me. Washed his hands. Apparently he had the opportunity to lie on very important papers…and he did with no problems at all. Even after many years that my mother was alive and papers were able to be made he was on my lawsuit papers. The papers never made it to court. HE had never been taken to court. That’s just to tell you how negligent the medical system can be.I AM SURE A LOT OF GREAT THINGS happen out there. There must be many good doctors. The problem is these doctors who simply, legally murdered me…and took off. They were never touched even after my injury had to finally be acknowledged…and it had been caused by the nerusourgeries and shocks. Also as far as rehabilitation. The systems out there assisting for the fees required to get into proper rehabilitative establishments didn’t do it for 12 years and when it finally did refused to assist me with a computer…which I use daily…for all of my activities due to my brain damage. So, whoever, comes on this site. Do hear this story. It will give a much better insight into a system that is pretty much devised to assist…and will…unless you have no memory…then you will fall (and this is none of their fault) into its negligence. I have been lucky and yet I still don’t see anyone aware of cognitive remediation…the answer to my head injuries and all who receive it…Ninuccio.
Please tell me SOMEONE actually looked at the actual scientific article. It’s free on the internet, go read it yourself. It has been ENTIRELY misrepresented in this article. Though it shows that certain types of ECT (ie sine wave ECT, which is rarely used now adays) can have long term repercussions, but most of the “cognitive defecits”, especially with more recent techniques, resolved by the 6 month followup (except the amnesia, which was already known as a potential long term side effect). Nothing is new in this article. There are no LONG TERM cognitive deficits shown in the article, except with use of sine wave ECT.
Like surgery, ECT should never be taken lightly, and full disclosure is needed, but it is a needed option for some.
…most of the “cognitive defecits”, especially with more recent techniques, resolved by the 6 month followup…
Mr. Jeremy…I have not looked at the article. Or better yet I may have looked at it…but simply don’t remember doing so. But here again I have rehabilitated from severe damages caused…by what I am sure the article says is safe…So,even though I may have not read it…how truthful could this article possibly be…UNLESS…it would give the pros and the cons on ECT. Maybe it should be followed up by some articles on some people who were injured…LIKE ME. I live my life under a long term, short term memory loss, a disorientation in time and date, a memory dejavu,focusing what is said,time and place disorientation, impaired insight and judgement,distractibility,emotional gaiting and a right hemiparesis.
Actually this is the last portrayal of my ECT. It had changed continuously.
These are going to be lifelong injuries. I have actually been rehabilitated to understand my injuries. MOST…are not.
So, I am very glad, you liked the article you read about ECT. but I am sure you did not read its possible negative effects…and you couldn’t have. Since my situation never made it to court this can only be published on sites like this one.
Ninuccio
I had three ECT’s in September 2007 and since I had such a fantastic response to them, my mood lifted incredibly, I felt the very minimal memory loss I experienced at that time was worth it. However, due to severe depression coming back I had another 15 ECT’s over the last few months and the momory loss and cognitive changes, and even changes to my character and personality has occurred as a result of the treatments, I have no doubt that ECT can be a lifesaver for some but a lifechanger in a negative way for others, and I have some regret that I underwent them (again, my mood has improved) and do not plan to undergo the treatments ever again.
The only scientific article is people’s insights given through experience. THIS IS WHAT THIS SIGHT DOES. Injuries caused by shocks are not published anywhere. They are simply not allowed to be published. How could they be allowed to be publish and tarnish our “medical system”. And even if someone would dispute this article written by a top doctor trying to stop these quacks. Top meaning he has gone through all the training and research and backs up his oponion by facts.The very fact that some top doctor is saying the contrary of what another top doctor is saying should be cause enough to give you some thought. A privildge you still have since electricity has not numbed it in your brain.
Before ECT my depression had completely taken over my life. If I was awake and not eating or sitting on the toilet I was on my hands and knees staring at the carpet. There was no response to any medication or other therapy. Suicide was not just an ideation, it had become a necessity.
So off to ECT. I must say that I am very grateful to have had it as I now live without depression as long as I am medicated, and I never miss my meds. I will not ever complain that I had ECT; it definitely saved my life.
But life is different now.
I had twelve sessions of ECT a little over two years ago and can say my mental condition has improved over time. Not only do I now know where
Walmart is, I also know what it is, and if I do not get on the freeway going the wrong way I will eventually arrive there. However, I did not remember this stuff. I had to relearn it all.
I am amused by one post which said that, OK, the memory loss is is still bad, but there is no cognitive impairment.
The problem is that when you cannot remember what you did a minute ago how can you begin to display decent cognitive function. How can you focus on anything, form decent judgments, interpret information or read anything more difficult than, “Look Sally, see Dick run.”
An example: As someone who relied on math all my life I used to multiply three digit numbers mentally to stay sharp. Now I need a calculator to add single digits.
Another: I used to spell quite well. People checked spellings with me quite often. Now as I type this and misspell a word I cannot go to Dictionary.com in another tab and back to this tab and still remember how to spell the word. Fortunately, a friend, bless her patience, taught me that if I cut and paste from the other tab into this one I can accomplish my goal.
One more. No, really, just one: Pre-ECT this post would have been a ten or fifteen minute task. Now, although I enjoyed writing it more than I would have then, it did take almost two hours to write.
So there is a lot of downside to ECT, but if it is your only way out, I highly recommend it. I am a much simpler person now leading a much simpler life.
And I am happy for the first time in sixty years.
My mom is currently in the psychiatric ward of one of the best hospitals in the country. She has suffered from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder her whole life. Anxiety from improbable negative scenarios (ie you can’t go camping because you might get bit by a racoon and get rabies and die, wash your hands after petting the dog because he’s been outside where there are squirrels and they might have rabies and you’ll die) have alawys impaired her quality of life. She was able to hide it and make choices that caused her less anxiety. She was always somewhat sarcastic and negative but was considered by most of us “a little neurotic with a dry sense of humor.”
For the last 5 years she has been suffering from depression. After the first year, she seemed to get slightly better with medication, but about 2 years ago she starting spiraling downwards into Major Depressive Disorder. None of the many combinations of medications improved her situation. Finally in the last couple months she has been stuck in these obsessive cycles of thought all day long. Whatever she is fixated on, there is no talking her out of it, not even for a moment to stop and comment on the weather. No matter what topic is brought up, within about 5-7 seconds, it returns to the obsession at hand. When she started to become unsure whether she had been in car accidents (yes, plural), and was certain she was either going to jail or dying, she agreed to be hospitalized.
She has been hospitalized for 10 days. Since then she has shown no real improvement. She is sure she is dying. She talks in circles about whether she is urinating too much/not enough and both must mean she is dying. She draws odd conclusions and doesn’t understand even basic things like being able to operate the washing machine for the patients to use (she has been a homemaker her whole life - she knows how to use a washing machine). She doesn’t want to ask how to use the washing machine because she’s afraid it’ll be a “black mark” against her and she’ll never get out of the hospital. Right now she cannot function enough to take care of herself or even allow us to care for her outside of a hospital.
She has all of these cognitive problems and has NOT had ECT yet at this point.
Her doctor recommended yesterday that she have ECT. The possible side effects are scary, yes. But even what most of you are describing above seems like a much better quality of life than what my mother has been experiencing for the last couple years, especially the last couple of months. I fear that if she does not choose ECT that she may go months or even years without signifigant improvement. Has anyone else had or seem similar symptoms? Was there an equally viable option to try that was effective? Do we just keep going and hope that sometime soon she just “snaps out of it”? Or can it be said that maybe the potential benefits would outweigh the potential risks?
Sometimes after all other treatments have been tried ECT. may be the route to go…BUT…be aware of one thing. ECT. had destroyed many lives. Mine being one of them. ECT. can cause and does cause severe cognitive difficulties. Now from what I read your mom seems to be in not very good shape…however…the people who hurt me and many others easily lied on the papers. The consent forms were vague. Once the damages caused they are extremely difficult to then diagnose. SO, if you feel your mom had had all possible treatments and now ECT. may be the route. MAKE sure it is given in a top medical place. Make sure you check out the doctor. Make sure he is well accredited for performing this before. MAKE sure she received neuropsychological testing prior to the ECTs. and then after. If they are not going to do this get away from these doctors and go somewhere else. Keep a close eye. When I was receiving my ECT.s they were begun without consent. When I had called my mother and ex-wife they had trust in the doctor. This guy polished me off. I came out of there like a zombie. My eyes glassy. It took approximately 16 years for me to rehabilitate to understand the full potential of my injuries. 16 long years. 16 lonely years. Wife divorced me…mother died…friends gone…and no potential friends to be made. Keep an eye on these folks…close eye…Ninuccio.
I have a 2-3 year gap in my memory from age 7 to 9 - I cn recall absolutly nothing! I can recall being quite smart when I was younger. From 9 to 12 I was bottom of the class, in a kind of fog, but it didnt seem to bother me. I improved afterwards, but never had any ambitions/goals and didnt seem to have any self worth. I drank a lot over the years. I am now dry. I only recently became concious of those missing years! - I’m now 55 years.
I’ve no recolection of having ECT. Nobody ever told me what happened.
Is there a way of finding out if I had ECT - some sort of scan that would show it up. I dont think I had any major head trauma.
I have been on SSRI’s and Lamictal (an anti-convulsant, I think)for depression for about 13 years. A few months ago I started tapering off. I’m still taking 50mg of Lamictal because the withdrawal is bad. The reason I am writing here is; I’m just starting to realize the severity of the negative effects on my brain this has had.
One being, I have practically no memory of raising my kids (or much of my life at all). My kids are 18 & 16, it’s not like it was a long time ago. I started looking up amnesia and what could cause it and found ECT. I believe all these psychiatric drugs are having the same “unknown effects” on the brain as ECT, only slower.
Ninuccio
I can totally relate to what you said;
“16 lonely years. friends gone…and no potential friends to be made”.
I’m sorry.
Can’t really explain how/why that made perfect sense to me, but I know exactly what you mean.
I completely agree about the psychiatric drugs. When I was young, I was the top of my class smartest kid in the room. Since I have started on the antidepressants and antipsychotics and stimulants and all, I cannot do the same things I could then. I am about to graduate college and feel like I have learned nothing! Most of the time I even forget to eat. I dont get hungry, I’m still depressed and I’m still having mood swings. I have considered ECT but it doesnt sound any better than what I am going through now. I was sexually assaulted for 21 and a half years of my life. I turn 22 in september. I dont remember my childhood or even more so the years since I started medications. I cannot do the same math skills I could do in even elementary school. I feel like my brain is rotting! Is ECT any better than the medications? I feel like I’m going through the same things you all are.
How on earth do some of these people with
severe depression go to school,get college
degrees,do soduko,set goals,have friends,
cook,read and many other things I’ve read
in these postings.I can’t even imagine.
I breath in and breath out, thats about it.
I know what you mean. I’m barely keeping a job. I have no friends, no social life, as for goals, I’ve had some goals but I forget them and when I remember years later, I’ve taken no steps towards them. I’ve just been “breathing in and out”. That’s a perfect way to describe it because I don’t know what I’ve done with my life. People say, “you’ve been raising your kids…” No, my kids are growing up because they were born and that’s what happens whether I’m a good parent or not.
Laura,
I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through and are going through. I didn’t even (and still don’t)know what to say about your situation. I can’t imagine dealing with all of that. I think Michelle agrees in being in awe of your accomplishments. If I may suggest; Read one of Dr. Peter Breggin’s books (I’m on my 3rd) The 1st one I read was “Your drug may be your problem”. I can’t tell you how much useful information is in there. It’s not only the scientific info that amazed me but also his empathy. He has a lot of stories about patients and you can tell he actually listened and understood them and then actually helped them. http://www.breggin.com/
I had 11 ECTs in 1964-1965…..I am 58 years old. I was 14-15 years old at the time. I have had a fairly successful life, although I suffered and still suffer from cognitive disfunction, memory loss of much of my childhood, and now have relaping remitting MS for the past 28 years. I am convinced it is a barbaric treatment, despite memory loss I do remember going into one treatment and the guard put in my mouth, the headache afterwards, and being promised unless I got my act together, I would have more. I was smart enough to act just fine in order to get out. I do suffer from anxiety attacks, am very untrusting of medical doctors and although I manage through life and am a professional person, I hide deeply the fact I ever had ETCs. There is not only the life long effects, but the trauma associated with it, and the stigma towards people who have been “locked up”. I was severely depressed. When I switched to naturopathic medicine 13 years ago, it was discovered I was severely deficient in magnesium and my natural lithium level was zero. I take all natural meds and have benefited greatly from that. I was also found to have off the chart mercury poisoning and arsenic poisioning. As a child and teenager, this could have been easily the problems I was having and was misdiagnosed by MDs as a mental problem when actually the depression and anxiety are prominant effects of all the naturopathic physicians found in testing. I would completely discourage anyone from having ETCs…first and formost, go to a naturopathic physician who has graduated from an accredited college and spend the money and be tested completely. I also had a growth in my thyroid, which probably happened in mid-life….but the MDs I was treated by until I was 45 missed that also. Please….try naturopathic medicine. It saved my life and I am up walking around, working and doing my very best with life. I am a mother and grandmother…and life is good…but could have been a lot better without ETCs and the appropriate treatment and testing when I was 14.
I have had over 200 ECT’s IN a 2-3 year period (I CAN’T REMEMBER the exact timeframe without going through my medical records).
My ECT’s were originally started because of severe depression (I am bipolar) and numerous hospitalizations. My medication and hospitalizations did not help enough. The results of my first few ECT’s were helpful. They pulled me out of my deep depression and feelings of suicide. However, my doctor continued giving me ECT’s just because I felt blue at times (which was usually circumstantial). It was easier for my doctor to cover up my feelings and give me an ECT and not have to deal with the reasons for my depression.
Many times I questioned the number of ECT’s I was having but was always reassured by my doctor that I was improving. Also, the patients I met while waiting for my ECT had also had as many or more ECT’s that me.
I trusted my psychiatrist completely and was devistated and angry to learn of his negligence and lack of concern for me.
The results for my ECT’s were: Almost total memory loss. I can’t remember my daughter’s childhood, my friends, my previous marriage and divorce, major events in my life, the reason for my divorce, my honeymoon, the earlier years of my marriage, moving to Minneapolis, previous jobs and my skills…My career is over and I am working part-time at a low-stress, low-performance job. I am on permanent disability.
The ECT’s helped only for a short time and I would need another and another and another to maintain my mental health.
I would only recommend a FEW ECT’s if required on a crisis basis. Any more ECT’s cause severe loss of memory and a loss of ones previous life.
I had three episodes during ECT’s where I temporarily stopped breathing; one where my blood pressure dropped to 90/60; and another where I contracted a very serious, life threatening staff infection due to staff’s poor hygiene (no rubber gloves were worn). The hospital staff was running around screaming and in a panic. I was awake during this time. As a matter of fact, I was awake one time during an ECT which was a nightmare for me.
ECT’s are a temporary fix which erases your memory. I believe one must face their past in order to deal with and overcome it.
Please be VERY cautious when considering an ECT and pray a lot before making a decision.
RESEARCH, THINK LONG AND HARD, AND PRAY BEFORE MAKING A DECISION TO HAVE AN ECT! I WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER ONE AND AM CONSIDERING, ALONG WITH OTHER FORMER PATIENTS, A MALPRACTICE SUIT.
For me, a malpractice suit would be unlikely…I am sure there is a time limit on such things and my situation was over 40 years ago. The Dr. that did this, seemed to prefer to do ECTs on all of his patients. That would be a documented fact. Actually, in 1969 a psychologist brought him before the medical board with a charge of medical child abuse using my records. It went no where.
Lawsuits are highly unlikely. These doctors are so well shielded and protected behind their title and within their own peer groups. To the point that they have no fear or retribution by the legal system. Strong words maybe…but… 1) Subjecting the patient to controversial and potentially damaging electroshock
without informed consent. 2) When the patient’s brain function was already impaired, subjecting the patient to another
brain disabling treatment in the form of electroshock.
3) When the patient suffered from an extreme reaction to electroshock, continuing
with the treatment. 4) Failing to inform the patient and family that malpractice had been committed by Dr. xxxxxx 5) Failing to inform the patient and family that the patient would never recover from the brain damage inflicted by the psychosurgery and compounded by the electroshock.
6) Giving electroshock to on obviously incompetent patient with no legal guardian, and therefore without consent. 7) Inappropriately prescribing electroshock for a patient in whom it was unwarranted.
When many years later by some stroke of luck i had finally begun receiving assistance for this buthchering when no advocacy had been given after the shocks. I was in the Rusk Institute with a treatment that was finally bringing out the intricate injuries. After three years i was followed up by a doctor not far from the Rusk. After a few years I was sent back to the Rusk for assessment. Could not enter the Rusk because I owed money. Was thus sent to see the doctor from the Rusk in Bellevue. As I got there, he wasn’t there. Saw another doctor. I explained to him why I was there. He told me he would be taking care of the situation today…”why was i there”. Explained to him I had been in the Rusk taking cognitive remediation. He stops me and asks me…what’s that? He, however,listened attentively as I explained to him how the treatment worked. Then I was sent to the counselor there and given an appointment for neuropsychological testing somewhere in manhattan.At a later date went to the testing and my injury was diagnosed as a short term memory loss. I said fine…then I presented my index card, I always carry, that shows my true injury, diagnosed by 3 years of cognitive remediation in the Rusk. It had eight symptoms on it…
lawsuits are rare indeed. you an see why…even with all this beating nothing was done.
Even if it happened in new york city, nothing was done. Even, as it was found out i had a business administration degree and not a high school dropout…nothing was ever done…good luck with yours…ninuccio.
Hello. I am a medical doctor from an asian country and I came upon this post because I am searching everything for the side effects of ECT.
My brother, who is also a medical doctor have been diagnosed with bi-polar illness since he was in Medical school. He’s now 43 years old, married also to a medical doctor, with kids aging 15,8, and 5. He has been on off medications since I can remember. Although he was highly intelligent, we had a lot of problems, and he was always in trouble in between bouts of depression. In retrospect, I think this started way back in highschool, but we just dealt with it with understanding and family support.
The medications sort ot helped him during bouts of depressions, but the rest was hell for our family and his if he’s on his “manic moods”. He’s ill tempered and troubles abound. He will always have fights, sometimes ending with lawsuits. There are times me and his wife preferred that he be in his depressive moods, because we are free from all the troubles he brings.
About 8 months ago, he went to depression after a car accident on his own doing. He was extremely happy that time before the accident, on anti-depressant medications, thus he went out everyday, neglected his family, go home shouting at everyone on sight, not sleeping adequately. His depression spiraled down to major depression after the incident. He doesn’t eat much, refuses showers and started to show feeling of hopelessness. The medications were changed, adjusted to no avail. He needed constant care, and often he summoned me or his wife to go home to see him while we see patients in our clinics. He always talked to me about how he cannot take it anymore, and he wants to be treated. Constant threat of suicide agitated all of us. It affected everyone, me, his wife, our work, my parents, his kids. Until we decided the last option, ECT, as suggested by his psychiatrist.
He was admitted for 2 weeks and had 6 ECT sessions. And we were completely unprepared for the memory loss he exhibited. He just came home 3 days ago. We are all there for support, telling him stories of things lost in his memory. He cannot recall being brought to the hospital for treatment and consenting for the first ECT, but he remembers the subsequent ECTs. His wife and me are scared for the long term effects of the ECT. We know of the possibilities, but the severity? It’s case to case basis we do understand, and for now, we just have to wait and give him support.
For you people so vehemently opposed to ECT: “Do you think he should have not underwent the procedure?” To the patients here who claims they underwent hell because of ECT: “Do you also consider the Hell of Life you have brought upon to family and people who love you?” Psychiatric illness not only affect oneself, but also the people surrounding you. Imagine the trauma also to his kids, that they are already beginning to show hatred to their dad. I just wished I have recorded everything in video, his manic episodes and depression resulting to physical and psychological harm to everybody. So when the time comes he started to complain and threaten to sue his doctors about his memory and cognitive loss, I can show him his life he so wanted to maintain before ECT.
He is lucky though. We still all love him despite of everything, and even how difficult, will try to understand and give support.
Dear kiddydoc,
I can only imagine what a family must go through with a family member that is bipolar. I see the suffering in my daughter’s eyes when she talks about her childhood, even later years, and I have no memory. I ask family members and friends to help me put the puzzle pieces together, but they can only do so much.
You can read my article that I submitted earlier and read some of my history.
I will just briefly say that no one can comprehend what it is like to be bipolar…none of it makes sense to someone who hasn’t had the disease and cannot empathise. I have lived in hell most of my life from bipolar and sexual abuse as a child and spousal abuse later.
I have been in every mental hospital in metro Atlanta, mostly long-term stays. I almost died from anorexia in the ’80’s and still struggle daily with that.
I am 55 and have had over 200’s ECT’s (unbelieveable!) and they were a last resort for me. Initially, the ECT’s were a gift from God…but after so many they didn’t seems to help. In fact, I became worse and stopped on my own.
I stayed out of mental hospitals for about 3 years, although I was suicidal MANY times.
Reading about your brother’s severe condition, I can only say that maybe a life without memory is better than a life full of pain…although ECT is not a cure.
I also suffer daily from a life-long disease with no cure. The pain and the depression feed upon each other.
I’m so sorry for all the pain your family has suffered and continue to suffer. I would also like to say to your brother than I can understand his pain and pray for peace for him.
Right now, the only peace I see is in dying. I know it is a selfish act but I can’t continue living this hell.
Peace and Faith.
Sheila
To Kiddidock: “For you people so vehemently opposed to ECT: “Do you think he should have not underwent the procedure?” To the patients here who claims they underwent hell because of ECT: “Do you also consider the Hell of Life you have brought upon to family and people who love you?” Psychiatric illness not only affect oneself, but also the people surrounding you. Imagine the trauma also to his kids, that they are already beginning to show hatred to their dad. I just wished I have recorded everything in video, his manic episodes and depression resulting to physical and psychological harm to everybody. So when the time comes he started to complain and threaten to sue his doctors about his memory and cognitive loss, I can show him his life he so wanted to maintain before ECT..”
I think you miss a very important point to be made here. ECT’s are a last resort for some folks. No question of that. Don’t forget you are a layman. As competent as you may be in your life this is a world not very well understood. I have had to find all that was done to me. I pass the information out so that “others” can see the medical system is not all it’s cracked up to be. I make people aware…by displaying my injury…as to how inassistive many places are…so that they don’t waste their time in all the wrong places. ECT.is an asskicker. I also point out I live here in the Bronx of New York City. Even here I have continuously misdiagnosed. My true diagnosis was only made through three years of treatment by “cognitive remediation”. Also the doctors who injured me and almost took my life lied with no problems at all. That should open up your eyes also. My injuries happened in 1982. I was rehabilitated in 1991 to 95. I was made aware…since my injury had never been diagnosed by any “doctor” (and I use that term very loosely)…that my working days are over. It took me 16 years to find my heart…who had no choice but to divorce me many years ago. Now that your brother has had ECT.and as you should be aware ECT. will cause cognitive difficulties…then now…you should devote your time and attention not only in noticing that things are better…but finding the appropriate assistance for him…in ECT. discussion look at the site that reads “the place for rehabilitation”. It will show an eml.address of the Rusk Institute where the proper assistance will bring your brother face to face with his injuries. The assistance is called “cognitive remediaiton”. I have also passed on some very negative behaviours by the Rusk Institute in the way they simply don’t pass the information out. If you don’t go to them…they are definitely not going to look for you. Also the Rusk is very expensive therefore to get to it your brother would need insurance. Or here in New York City…(not very well known either by anyone)…there is a state agency called VESID. Vocational Educational Services for Individuals with Disabilities that…if they take on your brother situation…and are aware enough to be careful as to where he is put for rehab. you may be able to get him admitted to the Rusk. THERE he will learn all of his cognitive skills…including his deficits and how to remediate them…so I am a guy who is not so much against ECT. I am simply against the legal murder committed on me many years ago and I have had to watch so many around me never been given advocacy to get to the Rusk. Its a must…Ninuccio.
I would like to state that im just a psychology student in college and im doing an assignement on mental straightjacketing
I personally im opposed to ECT.
I also find it humorous that alot of people say how can you be opposed to ECT if you ask any patients to look back and see how miserable their lifes were then they would see how much its helped them…
Well for those of you who believe that, ill give you the pleasure of asking those patients that. But dont be surprised when they respond and tell you that they cant remmember those days, or any of the “happy” days previous to those.
I had ect and lost 7 months of memory.Iwould not recomend this treatment to anyone, like so many psychiatic procedures It damages the brain I have also been damged by neuroleptics and to some degree alcohol
I have to decide whether to encourage my 66 yr old husband to have ECT as his psychiatrist reccommends. He has suffered with depression since 1978 and has been on ant-depressants all that time. The last 3 years have been hell as his depression has spiralled ompletely out of control and he knows he is dying. He does have some health issues that are not life-threatening but the anxiety over these are out of all proportion. He has now been in hospital for 3 months (the 3rd time in 3 years) on different medications and some behavoural therapy. He seems to cope quite well with being in hospital and I take him out for walks or to the cinema one day mid-week. BUT when he comes home every weekend he won’t go out without me almost forcing him to (he is slightly better when he does)and when he stays in he feels worse & worse. For the past 2 years he has had a horrible sense of taste and smell, so bad that he feels it afeects other people (no-one else can smell anything) All his food tastes rancid to him. This has caused the severe depression he is now in. Every medical test he has is normal and nothing can be found medically that is causing it. He has severe diverticular disease (diagnosed) But he says he has lost blood and there’s a huge problem with his heart, but all bllod tests are normal and ECG’s show a normal reading. It is so hard to live with and keep up a positive attitude towards him. Will ECT help? After reading all the postings on this forum I am no nearer an answer. He is on a low dose of an anti-psycotic drug as well as a low dos of anti-depressant. He has had many changes of drugs and also come of them, at his request, completely for 2 weeks. Nothing makes him feel better.
I feel so sorry for all the people on here that are suffering this terrible condition and the carers of them. It is so traumatic to see our loved ones going through this despair and feeling so helpless to make them better. I will never give up trying though. All of you sufferers and carers DON’T GIVE UP. Look around you and see the beautiful things in this world — and there are many. Life gives us these challenges and we have to do the best we can. God Bless you all
Zoe-You have read all these articles before. Some people are all for it. Some people severely injured. Your doctor recommends it? Well…I really don’t know what to say…EXCEPT…IF…you will subject your husband to ECT. learn all about it. I hope you have learned through a few of these articles the medical system knows how to bail out when things go wrong…and should something go wrong and it SHOULD BE ACKNOWLEDGED…(because the problem with ECT. is that its effects can only be properly diagnosed properly by neuropsych. and cogniitive remediation. Now if you had not heard of that before…then how much do you really know of ECT. potential damages. That is why I tell you to learn about ECT. prior to its administration. It needs to be given appropriately. Just want to mention as I tell you this it took 16 years before my damages were able to be acknowledged and the doctors having caused them…ALMOST…you notice I say ALMOST…taken to court. Lawsuits for head injury are very uncommon. Especially for a person in his later years. (I don’t mean to be rude by saying that…my mom recently died from wrong medications being given her in a top hospital in New York City and so far all the lawyers I have been too don’t want to deal with it because of her age…so I have experience with that). Also my damages from ECT. were caused right here in New York City…by a top doctor…in a top hospital. They took me out of circulation at my young age of 27. I am now 55…and have had to struggle just to stay alive…and will be disabled with a host of cognitive difficulties ONLY acknowledged by proper treatment. The lawyers told my mom, before she was killed also, that a severe injustice had been committed. So if this can be done to a relatively young man, in New York City. By probably the top doctor in shocks in New York City. Then you should be able to see that these bad doctors, that these bad outcomes, are easily shielded. Not even top lawyers realize at times they can do anything about it. ECT. is a last resort…if your husband has reached that part of his life where this is a possibility…and you are willing to give it a change…THEN…learn all you can learn. MAKE SURE…he receives NEUROPSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING prior to his shocks. MAKE SURE…he receives it after his shocks. Make sure he is well monitored as he goes through this. Don’t forget…as I have experienced that ECT. may help him tremendously. Also be aware it may cause more damages then expected…damages that unless properly tested he may never be able to find out of…good luck in your quest. If you say YES…just make sure you are aware of the prerequisites…neuropsych. testing…and of the potential damages…Make sure your doctor is also aware of this…Ninuccio.
Zoe, It sounds as if your hubby has had every depression treatment available without acceptable results. Since one definition of insanity is to repeat something over and over expecting different results perhaps it is time to try something new. I was in the same boat as your husband with no way out except what I consider the last resort, ECT.
ECT saved my life by relieving my lifelong and life threatening depression. The price I paid was most of the side effects listed above by others.
I couldn’t dial the phone because I could not look at a phone number and then remember it by the time my eyes moved to the phone, even trying only one digit at a time. But now, two years later, I can handle this and many other things that were impossible without much difficulty. (Aricept, a drug for Alzheimers does help with the memory.)
However, I am cognitively impaired enough that I can no longer work. I am recovered enough though to lead a normal life. Although I am living on a small amount of money because of my forced early retirement I am happy and content. I no longer suffer from depression, although I still maintain on a low dose anti-deprssant, Lamictal.
Not to brag, just to report, I recovered on my own. It was tough, but doable. Therefore, since your hubby has the help of a loving, dedicated spouse the road back should be a lot easier for him.
It sounds as though he only has an existence. Hopefully ECT can give him back his life.
And for your therapy I suggest you read “A New Earth” by Eckhardt Tolle. This can help you now with your side effects of his depression.
to cici and Tracey,
I,m not suprised that enforced ect is having so many later syptoms that can as ever be attributed to MH probs, not falidated etc etc.
also its so obvious who the bogus people are on this its untrue.
Back in the 80,s when I was put on a section, several times and hounded by varous groups of professionals including a gynachologist none of this would have been beleived, it all runs pretty much like some cooked up novel, but quess what it was true all along. Why didnt they believe me back then? before so much damage was done to me!
Why anyone would ever want ECT is beyond me
if they are so sure they want to forget something that much then ok I supose you would let them have it
after all they are adult enough to decide for themselves.
What makes me so angry is when people tell them, (professionals) they dont really want it and the response is so bad
hounded for months till you give in
now isnt that against the european charter or something like that!
ninuccio 19th June
its a huge decision, whats more important is that if there is cognitive remediation available for her, has she tried it before, this may be a more humane alternative
Jane
This sounds absolutely terrifying. I stumbled upon this sight after googeling for some discussions on permanent cognitive damage after antidepressants. I was on a sedating antidepressant for 1.5 years, and now, 6 months after getting off I still suffer short-term memory loss, disorientation in time and space, some long term memory loss (my sister will talk about stuff we did 10 years ago and I have no recallection what so ever, and I used to have an unusually good memory for things I experienced). I also am working on my master’s in economics, and I just can not learn math anymore. I just can’t understand at all aspects of mathematical statistics and dynamic programming that I used to find very intuitive and clear. I just can’t make the connections. I am not sure I can ever finish my degree with this impairment. Also I used to be the most creative person, full of questions and ideas, and now I have nothing. Anyway, I am just begging for it to be restored, but I don’t see how that would work. I just can’t make connections anymore because I can only think in one dimenstion, whereas I used to be able to think in several… . This is horrifying!
I am wondering if in 20 years there will be discussions like these on damages from ECT but for SSRIs.
Can cognitive impairment improve with time?
I don’t really know that. What I do know though is that cognitive impairment needs to be fully assessed. That is a huge problem without the proper assistance…and that’s the problem many get stuck with…Ninuccio
Can cognitive impairment improve with time?
Just one other thing I think I should have discussed. Cognitive impairment can remain that…for the rest of your life…unless…you get to recognize its various complications in your brain. If it becomes troublesome…my suggestion would be of a “competent” cognitive remediation center where by an appropriate program your “whole” injury will be brought out. The program I attended in the Rusk Institute in Manhattan was appropriately structured…(neuropsych. testing. Cognitive remediation classes. DVE.program…Diagnositic Vocational Evaluation. WPAT.-Work and Personal Adjustment)…after all this a full evaluation will be in place and the doctors will call you into a meeting and discuss to you your full cognitive status and your potential in a work setting. It was this achievement of finally getting to this treatment…(3 years worth) that made me fully aware as to my head injuries. Thus I remained on SSDI.Social Security Disability Insurance…since I become aware of my “full potential” through the classes and realized the damage was even more than I had suspected…and that it would simply not go away. HOWEVER I thanked them tremendously for having made me aware of something I could have never become aware of on my own…Ninuccio.