The Top Three Questions
Category: ECT Information and ECT Effects and Patient Info and Informed Consent
What follows are the three most frequently asked questions sent via email:
1. Where can I find a facility that gives ECT?
I don’t have a master list of ECT providers. I am concerned, however, that you would be seeking out ECT on your own. It is unlikely that you would find a clinic or hospital that would give you ECT without a doctor’s recommendation.
This is something that should be discussed with your psychiatrist. Your doctor will know of facilities that perform ECT and will give you a recommendation if s/he feels ECT would be beneficial. If you do not have a relationship with a psychiatrist and wish to have ECT, you will have to find a psychiatrist who will fully evaluate you.
2. I had ECT and it was successful. Why is it necessary to put so much negative information on the web?
I am always curious about one thing when I get this question: if ECT was successful, why are you searching the Internet for ECT information? It seems to me that you would simply accept that it worked and move on to other more interesting pursuits. (I do not doubt your enthusiasm, but it’s something that has always puzzled me - I’m interested in responses!)
That said; why NOT put it on the web? I sincerely believe that patients should be told all sides of the ECT story before making their decision. Anything less is unfair and it’s patronizing.
“Until recently there appears to have been a general reluctance among psychiatrists to admit that ECT could cause memory or other cognitive problems that are severe, persistent and disabling.” This bold statement comes from a recent article in the British medical journal Advances in Psychiatric Treatment. (1)
The majority of people who find their way to ect.org AFTER ECT are at the very least disappointed. At worst, they’re devastated. If they had known before ECT that it causes a number of side effects (with discouraging efficacy and high relapse rates), they could have at least gone into it armed with information and lowered expectations. It’s less devastating to know the possibilities beforehand than to be caught completely blindsided. The latter leaves patients feeling deceived and swindled. That is much of the reason there is so much anger on the part of ECT patients who have a bad outcome. If they had clearly known the risks, they likely would have made the same decision to have ECT, but would not end up feeling so mislead.
Robertson and Pryor emphasized that “prospective patients should be warned of the significant risk of permanent amnesia and the possibility of permanent memory and cognitive disability.” (2)
You may have had a good outcome, but many do not. The negative side of ECT is discussed on ect.org to provide the full set of facts instead of the sanitized version many ECT practitioners choose to supply. Additionally, after a person is left bewildered, with no answers, this site provides a sense of fellowship with others, knowledge that they are not alone.
ECT is NOT a cure and any doctor who sells it as such is guilty of snake-oil salesmanship.
3. I told my doctor I searched the Internet and found information contrary to what s/he told me regarding ECT. His/her response was that the Internet is full of material not based on scientific facts and I should ignore it and stay off the web. Why would s/he be dishonest? What reasons could my doctor possibly have to hide these things from his/her patients?
Two simple answers followed up by more thorough discussion:
1. They are unaware or more commonly, don’t listen to their patients and have their heads in the sand.
2. They are paternalistic and think they know what’s best for you. They know if they provided a full set of facts, some patients would reject ECT.
Neither explanation means that your psychiatrist is a demon or a bad doctor. The very nature of psychiatry is based on paternalism, a view that you are mentally ill and therefore are incapable of decision-making. By removing some of the variables (information), your decision is easier to make. Unfortunately, this point of view is strongly rooted in psychiatry and in the public perception. That doesn’t make psychiatrists bad, just old fashioned and in need of a makeover.
Paternalism
“Persons with mental illness cannot make decisions on their own.” Most are lumped into that category. Yes, there are some individuals who are so ill they cannot function and make a decision. But you are obviously well enough to surf the Internet, to perform a search and find ect.org, and you’re well enough to compose an email to me, type in the email address and operate your computer to send the mail. You’re very likely well enough to make an informed decision, based on ALL the facts, not the selected few chosen by the person in charge.
There is a debate within the ECT industry concerning when ECT should be prescribed. Should it be used early in a depressive episode, or saved for those who are the most severely ill, desperate and treatment resistant? One of the leading psychiatrists in the latter camp once said that if a person is well enough to surf the Internet, he or she is not ill enough to consider ECT. (Many would disagree with that statement, but I toss it out as an interesting observation.)
Without a clue
I did a small research study called “Voices” a decade ago. An unsurprising finding from that study was that when ECT patients tell their doctors that they HAVE suffered devastating memory loss and other side effects, the doctors dismiss their complaints. But there was a highly surprising finding: many of those patients get frustrated at their psychiatrists but feel trying to convince them of the existence of the effects is futile. They move on to a new psychiatrist, or give up on psychiatry completely.
That treating psychiatrist, who has already discounted that they had side effects, never sees the individual again. S/he logically assumes that the person got better and moved on. Another success story! And since the doctor had not listened to the patient’s complaints, those complaints are never registered in the psychiatrist’s mind, and therefore, do not exist.
You can make up a variety of scenarios regarding the psychiatrist’s thinking along that path, but the bottom line is that to the psychiatrist, that patient did not have side effects. It’s a misperception, based on a refusal to acknowledge the patient’s complaints, but the doctor probably genuinely does not know it.
The second scenario is of course knowing the truth, but failing to share it. That sounds a bit more devious that I believe it is. I don’t think it’s a case of an evil doctor knowing and not telling because s/he’s a bad person. I think it’s just more of a case of this paternalism I keep talking about, a view that the doctor knows what’s best for you, so why bog you down with too much information, particularly negative information.
Another possibility is that your doctor simply has not kept up with the literature. What your doctor may consider “scientific fact” may be the statistic that has been quoted for many years, that only 1 in 200 persons suffer severe memory loss. Several years ago, that statistic was shown to be, depending on your point of view, either misleading or an outright lie. Harold Sackeim, considered the King of ECT, admitted it on a television show, although it softened the blow by calling the number “Impressionistic.”
impressionistic:
adjective
1. of or relating to or based on an impression rather than on facts or reasoning; “a surprisingly impressionistic review bearing marks of hasty composition”; “she had impressionistic memories of her childhood”
In more recent writings and testimonies, Mr. Sackeim has said that now it’s known ECT does, in fact, cause severe memory loss much more often than has been acknowledged. In his defense, he said the industry “Just didn’t know,” and that he has been trying to get industry leaders and doctors in the field to acknowledge what is now known.
For seventy years, patients have been reporting the same complaints, but “they just didn’t know.” Sackeim claims that they only discovered the hard science a few years ago.
The information is now out there, it’s being published, and your doctor’s only excuse will soon be that s/he’s not keeping up with current literature.
If your doctor is promoting ECT as a cure for depression, consider that a red flag and get a second opinion. Even the most enthusiastic ECT cheerleaders will tell you it’s most often a temporary fix, one that will require regular treatments indefinitely.
References:
1. Mangaoang, M. & Lucey, J. (2007) Cognitive rehabilitation: assessment and treatment of persistent memory impairments following ECT. Advances in Psychiatric Treatment, 13, 90-100.
2. Robertson, H. & Pryor, R. (2006) Memory and cognitive effects of ECT: informing and assessing patients. Advances in Psychiatric Treatment, 12,228-237.
Added: Mar 13, 2007 4:57 pm | Trackback URI | Email This Post | Print


I’m approaching my 10th ect. I feel no better, as a matter of fact, I feel more depressed. I feel less than a human being since I’ve gotten ect.
My boyfriend has been in more than out of the hospital for the last six weeks. He never was like this before. yes, he was depressed but everythng just hit him at once and her started to lose his mind and create more and more worries that were not even true. They have tried all the normal meds but nothing is working and he is only able to maintain wellness for less than 24 hours and then relapses back to manic thoughts and actions. Doctors are now suggesting ECT. He remembers his father had it 40 years ago and he is terrified. He father had forgotten how to speak and spent the rest of his life a vegetable. He refuses ECT and I am worried too. yes he is not able to function now but maybe the doctors are furshing things. What should I do?
Mary-
]’Where did you have this treatment?
Hi,
I have been suffering from depression for 3 years. I found no one who can cure me. Can you help me out? I read lots of great things about ect. Can you find me a doctor who will give me ect? Please help me out. If you find me a doctor, I will send my prescriptions & fees to him. I will be greatful to you if you do me that favour.
I am agnostic regarding ECT. However, it seems to me that there is a misconception that a good treatment for depression is one which prevents relapse.
(Full disclosure– I am ABD in psychology, but my research is not in this area, and I do not plan a career as a therapist.)
Of course there are high relapse rates. Depression is an episodic illness. Once the system is dysregulated, it takes very little to cause additional episodes. Unfortunately, with each episode of depression, it becomes increasingly likely that there will be a subsequent episode if the patient survives long enough. That is sad, but true. (Perhaps the mitigating factor is that in most cases, while the depression will return, it also will leave again.) Because ECT typically is reserved for people for whom other non-pharmacological treatments, such as CBT, do not prove effective, and/or for people for whom pharmacological treatments, such as SSRIs are either counter-indicated (e.g., family history of bipolar, but no bipolar in the patient,) or do not work (ironically SSRIs may be least effective for people with the most severe forms of anhedonic depression,) typically it is the people who are most disabled who try ECT.
Treatment comes with risks and costs. For the record, there are risks associated with SSRIs, too. Certainly memory loss is not a laughing matter. It is heartbreaking. However, in many cases, it is less disabling than the illness, especially when the illness is disabling enough to render the patient suicidal. For some people ECT is a lifesaving, miraculous treatrment, while for others it is a source of further heartbreak and loss.
Perhaps someday we will be able to prevent depression’s onset. Unfortunately, for now, that goal is distant. And for those struggling with depression, it is important to be gentle to self and to courageously strive to make the most of life. This is a tremendous challenge, but one worth pursuing.
i have been told by my therapist and psychiatrist that ect has had very positive results and is the best treatment for mental disorders, non the less, it is only the last recourse of action. what am i missing here?
one doctor says that because the nazis did alot of research on war victims using ect and it therefore has a bad rep’.
I am a 49 year old woman who has been receiving ECT treatments for the past year. When I become suicidal, a treatment of 3 episodes is given and then (depending on the length of seizures) I will go on maintenance ECT once a month. It helps with the depression and sometimes puts me in a manic mood. This week I am feeling great and have my monthly treatment coming up next week. I am reluctant to go through with it as I am doing fine. I will agree that there is memory loss, and from what I have been told is this: Ativan and Ambien both can cause memory loss, the anesthia being used to often and lastly the seizure and brain activity can cause it as well. But the risk of memory loss (I take arecept) to help with the memory, far outways the suicidal tendicies that are so severe.
thanks for your time.
I was curious to see if there was any info on the web as to others who did not experience relief from ECT therapy. I am shocked to see that so many others have not felt better. I thought for sure it would be the best cure for me - I have been on meds for 12 years and it is getting to the point where none of them are working. I had 7 ECT treatments and got no relief. I suffered short term memory loss (which is no longer an issue) but found myself unable to learn new things at work.
I’ve had 24 ECT treatments now and it has helped tremendously. I went from being very suicidal to nearly normal over the course of a couple of months. I now get maintainance treatments monthly, for about the last 8 months and we are getting ready to stop treatments totally. I’m hoping that I don’t relapse, but if I do, the doc says we will go back to doing treatments monthly/or as necessary. I am ok with this plan. There has been memory loss for sure, but overall I believe the treatments have been very helpful…I’m glad that I’ve had access to ECT treatment. I feel blessed for the intervention.
i am considering having ECT done… I had an appointment today w/ my psychiatrist and i am considering it- i brought it up to him, not the other way around. I find it funny that the book “Feeling Good” is on this page, b/c it was pure crap when I got it. My first therapist referred me to it b/c i was not yet taking medication and my 2nd therapist told me that they have to refer you to one for insurance purposes. I felt so outraged that this woman, just thought I would get “better” b/c of a book… she also thought i was doing well, but basically i wasn’t telling her everything… but that book is so stupid. I still own it, and so do a bunch of my other friends whose therapists recommended it to them. Just the mere thought that that book is on here, is making it hard for me to take anything on this site seriously.
I have suffered for years w/ depression and anxiety and borderline personality disorder and i hope to get some serious help possibly through ect… i have been on almost every medication there is, including the tri-cyclics… i’m worried about the memory loss, but I want to learn more facts about it from other sources besides this site…
-laura
Laura– You will be in my thoughts. Have you investigated DBT? I think it is the best treatment available for borderline personality disorder. (I made one of the comments above, so you can also see my thoughts on ECT.) DBT has empirical support. I would suggest getting DBT first, if possible, then trying ECT. I hope that things get much better for you.
What is DBT? I have never heard of it and feel that I need to know all options. I have maintanance ect every three weeks and taking my medication regularly.
Hi, Cindy–
First of all, I am really impressed that you are taking really good care of yourself– finding treatment that helps and then maintaining it is an accomplishment.
I am glad you asked about DBT. Before I answer, I want to offer a caveat– I am working on a Ph.D. in clinical psych, but I am not a practicing therapist, nor do I intend to be one.
DBT stands for Dialectical Behavior Therapy. It is a treatment developed by Marsha Linehan. (For the record, Linehan has a Ph.D. and is a psychology professor.) DBT often is used as a treatment for folks with borderline personality disorder, but it also may be used with folks who have survived traumas but have not experienced borderline personality disorder, and it may be used with others as well, but I am not knowledgeable about that. DBT is interesting; it combines elements of Eastern philosophy and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Research supports DBT as a helpful therapy for Borderline Personality Disorder. I like that DBT helps individuals develop skills for tolerating when life sucks. (Because, let’s face it, there are times when things are lousy and life can be painful.)
Please let me know if you have any further questions, and if I can, I will answer.
I wish you the very best.
Sincerely,
C.M.
Thank you CM for answering and giving me such supportive feedback. Is this treatment available and how would I go about tracking someone who treats with this. I am in the process of lowering the dosage of my medications and find that I am more involved in my surroundings and give opinions and have kinda come out of my shell and finding that I have feelings, some good some not so good and need support to provide me with self-esteem and not to clam up when the tough things come along.
Do you know of any doctors that utilize this treatment in San Antonio, Texas?
For those of you that are looking for releif from depression and have heard about ECT, there are several groups that may be able to pass on the information of a doctor that provides ect treatment.
DBSA - depression bi-polar support group in SA
NAMI - National alliance for mental illness
Prosumers - advocates for peole with mental illness
This is just a few of support groups that might be able to help.
I just had 3+ weeks of inpatient care and e.c.t. I have been on drug therapy for 14+ years. I am drug resistent and even when taking 14 anti-depressants a day, I was still depressed. I needed to take 2 sabbaticals from work, when I got to the point I couldn’t get out of bed. I am educated, past the masters level. When I moved back to NE, my new doctor suggested I see the head psychiatrist at Beth Israel N.E. Deaconess in Boston. Anyone who feels they want to explore
e.c.t. options, could call Dr. Kerry Bloomingdale 1-627-667-4728 (617-632-8343). I saw him, he agreed that I could benefit from e.c.t. and I did. I don’t know why it worked, but it did. I am much more like my old self, much calmer and basically not depressed. I may need maintenance e.c.t.’s, but I hope not. I don’t know about long term effects, they do worry me. So far my short term memory loss amounts to a day when I couldn’t remember how to spell (example: describe). That has come back to me. My life was not worth living. E.C.T. has made me feel 100% better. I am taking only 1 anti-depressant a day (Cymbalta) and a sleeping pill (Trazadone). I was extremely frightened of the treatments, but I am glad I did them.
I had ect thrapy and I am suffering from bigger problems like sex and memory loss. The life time problem is sex…….I dont know why they given me ect but it has taken away my freedom of thinking thus i am like a vegetable nothing more than that. I am living alone have no friends (I use to have many) now I cant coupe with them.
Those who are thinking to have ECT think again for 1000 times.I lost my happines and this treatment should be banned.
Cindy–
I have been out of town, so I apologize for not getting a chance to reply sooner.
I do not personally know anybody practicing in San Antonio, but I did look at the DBT website’s find a therapist search engine:
http://www.behavioraltech.com/resources/crd.cfm
I did not see anybody in San Antonio, BUT you may have success finding someone who is trained in DBT by contacting a therapist who is trained in DBT and asking for a referral, OR it may be possible to find someone with DBT training by phoning some area therapists and asking if they are trained in it. I wish I had a better, more helpful answer.
Please let me know how it goes. You’ll be in my thoughts.
Sincerely,
C.M.
Dear Mahin,
I am very sorry to read about how difficult things are for you right now.
It does not sound as though things were going well before the ECT, so maybe the ECT is not to blame for all of your problems? (Though perhaps some?) I am allergic to codeine, but just because that medicine does not work for me, that does not mean I think it should be banned. Some people do benefit from it.
More importantly, though, it sounds as though you are really suffering right now. I am genuinely sorry to hear it, and I hope that things will get better.
If you can, maybe it would help to make a list of a few things you enjoy or used to enjoy, (my list would include walking my dog, making key lime pie, finding funny stuff on youtube.com, doing sudoku puzzles, and listening to music that makes me feel good/I can sing along,) then do one thing off of the list each day. It can be small stuff, and it might not feel good at first, but keep doing it. (And if you miss a day, then get back to it the very next day.) Over time, it might help.
I am guessing that you are seeing a therapist. Having a good therapist can make a world of difference. If you aren’t seeing a therapist right now, it sounds as though it would be a good idea– a good therapist may be able to help you cope better.
Sincerely,
C.M.
I’ve received 3 ECT treatments within the last week. Out of desperation I had decided to try it since meds and therapy alone were not working. Thus far, I don’t feel there’s been an improvement. I am still having thoughts of harming myself and all I want to do is cry. If ECT is going to work, how many treatments does it take? I’m at a loss of what to do.
Dear Rachel,
Here is an answer that is of limited help: It varies. Odds are very good that you will start to feel better– in the meantime, grit your teeth, and channel your energy into being brave, brave enough to hold on until the treatments start helping and/or the depressive episode lifts enough to be tolerable.
I know it is a very difficult job to endure a severe depression, but remember that you are waiting out a storm, a storm of depression, and that the sun will shine for you again– you just have to wait out that storm. It sounds like you are doing a great job of doing your part– refraining from hurting yourself, getting treatments, trying new things to help improve how you are doing. It may not feel like as big of an accomplishment as it is, but it is a tremendous accomplishment. Keep up the bravery.
(And if you feel in danger of harming yourself, pleaase talk with your therapist about strategies and tactics to help you manage that things are sucking right now. A good therapist may not make the suckiness go away, but can help you find ways to tolerate the lousiness until things get better.)
Wishing you much improvement soon,
C.M.
I looked up this site to get info for my cousin who is scheduled for ECT soon. She is fearful and hopeful at the same time. The one thing we both have had in common for the last 35 years is depression. She has gotten progressively worse and fortunately, for me, it is GONE. Years ago Elavil was prescribed. It was horrible. No memory there either! No one told me. There were other side affects also. The next several years I suffered alone as I swore I would never take any drugs again. In the end, HOMEOPATHY was the answer. It works on a cellular level and I have been depression free for close to 15 years!! No more suicidal thoughts or hospitalizations. Remedies are taken subligually with no side affects. I wish I could encourage everyone to try Homeopathy. Even my cousin. It is slower than drugs but it sure has lasted longer. After reading everyone’s comments, I have no idea how to advise her. Thanks and stay in the light to you all.
My son has been bi-polar most of his adult life. He is now 29 years old has attempted suicide several times, thank-god unsuccessfully!! His father is bi-polar and an alcholic and I have suffered from major depression and been hospitalized several times myself. My son has been hospitalized more times than I can count, 3 times in the past 8 months alone. His longest period of “normalness” was when he was involved with a woman who had a baby he was helping to raise. She left him after 3 years in January and since then he has been unble to function at all. He has been unable to maintain a job for very long. He was hospitalized 3 weeks ago after again becoming suicidal and it was decided he would recieve ECT. He has received approx. 7 treatments so far, I am just concerened he is looking at this as a cure all and will be disappointed and feel he’s out of options!! Also he is no longer on any kind of medications after years of Lithium and anti-depressants. I can’t help but feel very cautious about his future. I feel helpless as a parent.
This site has helped me. thanks.
I find it a little bit demeaning to compare
my looking at the e.c.t.org site to dissatisfaction with E.C.T. For me it worked. I don’t think it is wrong at all for a person to seek out an E.C.T. facility. For me, I went into a major Boston hospital - affliated with Harvard, and I did need to see the head shrink at the hospital before I could be admitted for the treatments. He decided, along with my regular doctor, that it was the appropriate treatment. In the end though, I decided myself that my life was not worth living in the state I was in. I am drug resistent and I went through 14 years of trying one pill after the other. At one point, I took 14 various anti-depressents a day! I was still depressed. I have tried homeopathic, vitamin, improved diet, exercise, and any thing else I could find. Nothing worked. I was trying to work when I couldn’t finish a sentence because I was so screwed up from the drugs. It was embarrassing and made me even more depressed. I can’t say I am 100% cured. I still take an anti-depressent and I still get a little blue. I am, however, 100% better. I don’t think the e.c.t.’s are as bad as they used to be. They know a lot more. I did have some short term memory loss, but my losses have come back.
To Debby. Most people need 10 or more E.C.T.’s to get better. Some people need maintenance treatments for a long term. I started to feel a lot better after 6 treatments, and pretty darn good after 10. Why isn’t he on any meds? Is he bi-polar? In the hospital, I stayed on some of my drugs, but they weaned me off most of them. I thought bi-polar people always stayed on bi-polar medicine. The bi-polar people I was with, did continue their meds, but most were on Geodon - 1 was on Lithium. The one on Lithium did receive E.C.T. He had some problems with headaches. The problem lasted until after the treatments were done. Then they stopped. He did have a sinus infection, so maybe that worsened his headache.
Wow. I don’t think you are really giving an unbiased full set of facts regarding ECT treatment…possibly discouraging many people who it may help. I am sorry that you had a bad experience. But like medications, ECT is not a 100% cure. No one in the psychiatric world claims that it is. Of course it won’t work for some people. However, on a risk:benefit ratio, it has helped more than harmed.
I don’t think there are 100% effective treatments for very many diseases. If you want to give a full set of facts, as you claim, I suggest you talk to some people who have benefited from ECT before you dedicate a .org website to overemphasizing poor treatment outcomes.
Oh yeah…in regards to one looking up information rather than just accepting that it works…there is no logical rationale for your statement. People who care about themselves look up information about treatment options all the time…why do you think WebMD exists?
“why do you think WebMD exists?”
Uhhh, perhaps to help the parent company earn just shy of a billion dollars a year? You don’t think a lot of that doesn’t come from big pharma and insurance companies? Oh right, one of its sister corporations manufactures plastics used in…..hmmm, health products.
No conflict there.
Who funds this site?
Cindy–
How are you doing? Have you been able to find a DBT-qualified person near you?
You’ve been in my thoughts.
Sincerely,
C.M.
I’ve been having ECT now for several weeks. I’ve been noticing more and more memory loss with each consecutive treatment. When will my memory come back? I must have my memory back for my classes this fall!!!! I’m not paying for classess only to forget everything!
Janet, I fund this site, and associated sites (the message board, etc.) out of my own pocket.
I sell some amazon books to help towards costs, but it doesn’t pay for it all. Most of it comes out of my bank account.
My funding (or lack thereof) is disclosed on one of the pages.
Wow! That is really commendable.
CM,
Yes I have found a person who practices DBT, and I am seeing her 2 times a week currently. She really is wonderful. I think alot of good will come out of us working together. I stopped seeing my other therapist, it was not working for me any longer.
How have you been? I hope that life is happy and you are not struggling. Thank you for being there for me.
CT
I am glad that I happened on this site. My grandmother may be getting this treatment for dementia and paranoia. I am very nervious and worried about the effects that is will have on her. Is there any other common side effects besides memory loss??
Rachel, I am a school teacher. The memory problem was a real concern for me. ECT was once explained to me as a method of stopping some painful memories, and when the memories return to you, supposedly they come back one at a time, so you can deal with them separately. I don’t know if that’s true in my case. I lost some spelling ability, but it has mostly come back. I had the ECT in May. I am unable to concentrate for a long time - example it has been difficult to sit and read a book for long periods. I am getting better about that. I think that was a depression problem too. Did you find studying harder and harder when you were depressed? Was it hard to keep your mind on one subject? Do you think the ECT has actually erased parts of your intellect? I don’t have a lot of motivation now, but I think that’s the depression too. Let us know how you do.
Has anyone read any of the new research on magnet therapy for depression? I am going to ask my doctor about it.
I underwent ECT treatment over 12 years ago. I am still very much up in the air as to if the cure outweighs the memory loss.
I was catatonic and medications were doing no good except to make me ill and look like a walking zombie. At the time ECT seemed to be the only option. I was told the memory loss was only short term and didn’t last. I’m not sure how many treatments I went through…well over 15. It did help with the depression. There is no denying that.
But there are big chunks of my memory gone. Long term memory. (And maybe some of that is a good thing -painful memories are gone) But my family will say things like,
“don’t you remember when”…and I don’t remember-as hard as I try. There are also little things - like not being able to remember a movie. I have to watch it again and then it feels almost as if a dream were starting to come true as the movie unfolds itself. It comes back to me at the same time I am seeing it. It is a very weird sensation.
I can’t function without writing notes…lots and lots of notes. I am a manager and I know the only reason (besides God)that I can function in this capacity is because I take pages and pages of notes. I suffer from migraine headaches, extreme muscle and neck pain and have developed fibromyalgia. Is this all connected to ECT? I don’t know - but it is something I ask myself. Maybe the connection is to being bipolar…I don’t know.
What I do know is ect DOES affect more than just short term memory loss. They say tests have been done on animals - but how do you measure an animal’s brain up to a human beings? They can’t talk and tell you what they are feeling or what they remember or don’t remember.
It is a very serious thing to mess around with the human brain like that. I state again…I’m not sure if the cure outweighs the memory loss.
Sandra
I am 46 and suffered from insomnia and severe depression for 2 and a half years. I have been on 6 or 7 trails of meds.
I am feeling worse everyday. I am seeking the ECT and do have hopes that it will help. Are the side effects (short term memory loss) worth the benifit of feeling better? Do you have more energy and motivation after the ECT procedure?
Dear Jim:
You are completely disorientated after ECT. I felt completely helpless. I would go from one room to the next in my house with the purpose of going for something and end up standing in the middle of the room not knowing what the heck I was doing there. I couldn’t even remember from one thought to the next…whatever I was thinking about would just disappear. I couldn’t work…I did accounting - how in the world could I work with numbers when I couldn’t even remember what I was thinking?
The reason I got over my depression is because the ECT treatments made me realize what was depressing me. It was my verbally abusive relationship. I would have ECT and “get better” - only to have my husband “beat” me down - to getting an ECT treatment and getting better - to having my husband beat me down etc. I had to come to the realization that NOTHING was more important than my health. And ECT was affecting my health…just as much as the depression did.
It was the two years of cognitive therapy (along with medications) I had after the treatments that enabled me to break out of the cycle of ECT and depression. Would I have realized what was causing my depression without the ECT? I’m not sure. All I do know is that I did not want to have ECT and feel the way I did during it for the rest of my life. It just wasn’t an option.
I have had two more hospitalizations for depression since then. But I have never, ever considered ECT as an option again.
I am a chronically depressed 46-year-old man. (I have been told “chronic depression” is not a sound scientific term because depression is recurrent, but since I have had at best a few “less depressed” periods in over a decade, I believe it is very accurate term!) And I am completely alone. Parents are dead, no siblings, no spouse, few and distant friends who cannot help.
Depression has destroyed my professional career and forced me to switch to another, less profitable and less secure one. I am currently working from home, because I cannot go away from home for very long without getting phobic anxiety or panic. (In fact, I do not even have a proper “home,” since I live in a modest rented room and can no longer afford to have a real home of my own.) But even that is at risk because there are few days when I can actually do some work. So, I am not only distressed and suffering, but my economic survival is at risk, and bleak misery is not an exaggerated fear but a real possibility in the short- to mid-term!
I have been taking antidepressants for years, and some of them helped for a while, but either they had to be discontinued for intolerable toxic effects or simply ceased to work. Some others never worked at all. I have tried almost every possible drug in the market, and countless treatment schemes. Nothing seems to work any more, so ECT is now being considered as the last desperate option. And I am trying to get informed so as to decide whether or not to take it.
My clinical psychiatrist (I cannot afford a therapist) is very humane and very ethical, and is even more reluctant to employ ECT than I am. I am becoming less resistant to the idea, because I am starting to realize that in my case, there are very serious risks in NOT taking it, too. But I am finding it very hard to find objective, reliable information.
I can see enthusiastic supporters, but with suspicious connections. I can see enraged opponents, but they are almost invariably too emotionally biased to be objective. And most of the patient recounts I see, both positive and negative, talk about either too recent experiences or, on the contrary, so far away in the past that they probably have been subjected to ECT in a different form from what I would take. Worse still, they seem to think that because their own experience was good or bad, EVERYONE should embrace or run away from ECT, as the case may be.
This is very confusing. It is clear to me that ECT is very good to some people, but very bad to others - just like any other medical treatment. But nowhere could I find any numbers to help me assess my chances and risks - for example, what exactly are the odds that I will get severe memory loss, and to what degree (except that 1/200 cipher that is now held as a phallacy), or what are the chances that I will relapse after some time and start everything all over again.
This lack of any consensus or objectiveness is frustrating. In the end, my decision will be made just out of either desperation or a throw of dice. What else can I do, with the quality (or lack thereof) of the information I am getting?
On a last note, I am Brazilian and live in São Paulo, the country’s largest city (with many very good physicians and hospitals). So, my mother tongue is Portuguese, but obviously I have a good knowledge of English as well. Luckily, that enabled me to make that life-saving career switch I mentioned - from being a well-paid systems analyst to a barely surviving translator. But it is obvious that memory is critical to my work. See how difficult it is to decide?
Thanks anyway for your patience in letting me vent out my frustration.
Urso,
I want to tell you that ect will not work just because you have one treatment. The first treatment is scary due to not knowing what will happen. I had 15 treatments 3 per week to get me started, then when we saw improvement, we went to 1 a week, and now I am on a “maintenance” program 1 every 3 weeks. The memory loss is minimal and I try to repeat or write down things that mean something to me and read it over so I don’t forget. I do have a big concern in that you said you have no one (family or friends) and it is important to have someone to drive you home after the treatment and stay with you for a few hours until you know how it affected you.
I get migraine headaches after each treatment because my BP jumps high during treatment. The doctor now gives me something to bring it down so the headaches aren’t so severe.
All I can offer you is that I was “chronically depressed with bi-polar and I often tried to do self harm. For the first time in my life, the depresion is gone (I still get some bad days) but waking up and wanting to do things and go places and the pain in my soul is gone, the ECT treatments have been very helpful. I hope that you find peace in whatever decision you make and the people on this web site are here for you. Take care, Cindy
Dear Cindy,
I am hanging in there!
I really enjoyed reading what you wrote to Urso. I am happy to hear that you are doing so well!
Dear Urso,
You will be in my thoughts. I know that you are struggling. You have my very best wishes for the best possible recovery.
Thanks, Cindy and C.M. for your kind words. Cindy, I know that one treatment is not enough, but if I decide to do it, I hope I will not need too many because I know that increases the severity of the memory loss. There are many things in my life that I would gladly forget, but unfortunately one cannot choose what will be forgotten, as in “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind”… In fact, if I could forget a few selected things, at least half of my problems would be solved…
However, I was very struck earlier this year, as a good friend had cranial trauma after being hit by a speeding car and got severe retrograde amnesia. He does not know who I am, and it hurts a lot to know that the man is alive, but the dear friend he used to be is dead… I hope I never come to that point!
Yes, I am alone, but part of it comes from my own self-isolation, and another part just from the hectic of living in a very large city, that tends to fend off people (the São Paulo metropolitan area has 18 million people!). Over the years, depression has made me lose all socializing skills and opportunities, as well as the mere wish to socialize. But I still have perhaps one or two local friends who could assist me on the days of treatment.
They have to be both available and reliable, because here ECT still carries a lot of stigma and should not be exactly advertised. The comments would fly: “You see, Urso is so nuts that he even got electroshocks!” One could easily become a social and professional leper because of that. But that is not going to prevent me from doing it, if I decide so.
Thanks a lot for your support!
Urso,
It is obviuos that you are a very intelligent and analytical person. Reading SHOCK The Healing Power of Electroconvulsive Theraphy by Kitty Dukakis and Larry Tye (2006 Penguin Group) might help you. It is the most data driven writing on ECT that I have found, and it gives the current state of art of the treatment (286 pages).
I have relied on my mind for a living too, as I am a Ph.D. scientist. I sustained 25 ECT treatments with with some memory loss. Rolling with the punchs, I am fine, and still practice in my career. The trade-offs were well worthwhile. Yeah, my memory is not what is was, and there are holes, but that deep down old stuff we learned is still there, and man, is my DEPRESSION SO MUCH BETTER. My life is so much better.
Good luck with your choice. I wish you the best.
Andrea
Mary K / Thanks CM. This website has been somewhat helpful for me. I am currently working as a registered nurse. Yesterday, I volunteered to work in our psyche dept, bcuz they are currently having staffing problems. I was able to observe ect treatments on 3 patients. I am now searching for more info on the topic, to investigate if I want to be involved in this at all. It helps me to hear all of your comments. I felt intimidated being a part of the procedures yesterday, but my motivation was to help and I do have a personal interest in the psychiatric world for several reasons. I truly believe that psychiatric ills cause some of the worst pain for patients and family. I have a brother who is undiagnosed and has never gotten help for his psyche problem. What problem? He doesn’t have one {according to him}. To make a long story short, I have witnessed his pain and it has been a source of tremendous heartache for me. I have been at a loss as to how to help him. I do stay in contact with him and offer some financial support. I have personally suffered with some depression and anxiety myself, so I know what that is like. Blessings to all of you and may you find the help you are looking for….sincerely Mary ary
I “did” the DBT therapy (Marsha Linehan). I was very disappointed in it. I know it did not help me. Other people in the class felt they were getting something out of it though.
I had 10 e.c.t. treatments. Mine worked. But I got an email from a man who had gone through the treatment with me - he is suing the hospital and doctors. He said he ended up with brain damage and is unable to work. He’s bi-polar, and I am not sure if that is the real problem. He says he is having major headaches. He is not forthcoming with too many of his other symptoms. He mentioned his medicine was making him sick too.
I live in Sweden and I am a bipolar and have been treated with lithium and antidepr since 25 years. Last year I have been fallen into a deep depression without any help of new drugs, KBT and Mindfullness. After 6 month I decided to try ect after discussion with my doctor and after reading good and sufficient information. When I was sedated before my first ect I remember that I was crying, I didn´t want to live anymore. When I woke up I got for a second a feeling of joy. It had been gone for so long.
After 5 ect I felt good and could go home.
I have also some memorylosses but it´s not so bad and I can cope whith that.
Now I´m most afraid of a relapse (everybody is talking about it) and I ask my self every day if the depression is coming back.
My second struggle is to return to my work. I dont know my stability and my capability to deal whith stress.
I am afraid!
barbro, treatment for bi-polar is a struggle, but it sounds that you have an open communication with your doctor. If the ECT’s made life a beter place, then ask your doctor to do maintenance ECTS (1 every 5-6 weeks) That is what I do but I do them every 3 weeks. The memory loss sometimes get me down, but nothing compared to what I was feeling before.
It’s okay to be afraid, that shows that you have feelings and we are here to support you. You are strong and we’re behind you what ever it is you need.
Be safe and good luck. Talk to your doctor.
Cindy
i am a 55 yr old female who has been in treatment since 13 yrs old. Am bi-polar and DID. DID manifested first. Long hospitalizations and perpetual therapy and phychiatric treatment.
I am so desparate when I have an episode My shrink suggested I go into hospital again. I reply that it wont do any more than i could do by doing big meds at home, where I can at least sleep in a comfortable bed and watch tv when i want. I brought up ECT as the only reason I would go into the hospital. When I get like this i just want a lobotomy. I almost got one when i was 20 yrs old.
Recently have experienced memory loss. I want to hang a sign around my neck saying “please finish my sentence Very tough to talk to anyone on the phone “customer service personelle”
due to same loss. My meds are really not working. So I seem to be having the stmem loss that comes from ECT anyway. I think it probably comes from long term meds. When my shrink recommends more/different meds
my response is that it seems to me that the meds “work” during the positive episodic time frame of my illness. I still have episodic depression, meds or no meds. I suppose I could try going off all meds to see if there is any difference. That seemed too scary previously but now it doesnt seem too bad since i am considereing ETC.Have to come off Lithium, and all benzodiazapines before Tx.
I know I am rambling.Sorry. The site has been very
helpful
Engracia,
It sounds that you are having a very difficult, lonely, and confused time. I can tell in your writing that you are at your wits end.
How many ECTs have you had? Have you had any in 10 sessions just days apart. Then try a maintenance schedule of every 3-4 weeks until you feel relief. I don’t think quiting your meds is a good idea when you are in a desparate time. Perhaps talking to your doctor about some new ones. I tried all the anti-depressanats and bi-polar meds litheum and depacote, and I am finally on some that have been working eith the ects. I take geodon, carbratol, and serequel along with ativan. See what your doctor thinks of this drug combination. Until your next visit, I will be thinking of you and wishing you releif from this unhappy situation.
I just finished my 7th ECT treatment today. So far I haven’t had any confusion or memory loss. I wake up from the ECT alert. Does the confusion and memory loss usually just occur during the treatment or can it come after you are finished? I was still crying a lot after my second ECT and asked my doctor to change from unilateral to bilateral. I understood that bilateral works better but the possibility of side effects is greater. In between my 4th and 5th ECT I experienced something that I had not known since the late 80’s; happiness. I actually wanted to do something on purpose. Not just for others so I could hide my illness. What a strange feeling. I am making a list of things I might like to do! I have 3 more ECT treatments. I would also like to add that my doctor is the head of the psychiatrical ward of the large hospital that I have the ECT in, he is also was a past president of our regional area a American Psychiatric Association and in addition my personal psychiatric doctor. He is the first doctor of many that has let me be pro-active in my treatment. I might add that I had moderate memory loss and cognitive skill disfunction way before the ECT. Sometimes I can’t even talk write and have what I call word salad. My meds are 600mg Seroquel, 450mg Wellbutrin, 400mg Lamictal, 100mg Topomax and .10mg Adivan. Needless to say my depression is severe and my current episode has lasted over a year. I am a rapid cycler with generally more than 12 switches a year. The manic episodes last only 2-3 weeks and go straight to depression. I can go from severe depression one day to a manic episode the next. It’s as fast as toast popping out of the toaster.
I forgot to ask another question. I asked my doctor why I didn’t have any confusion or memory loss and he said it was partly because I have a good baseling. I can’t find any information on this. Anyone out ever hear of this? And a last comment of the memory loss from the meds; my teenagers try to use it to their advantange. They are always saying I said something to them that required a yes when I know I would have said no. They say “I forgot!”
I asked my doctor about why I didn’t have any real memory loss (a little- the few days before I went in for treatment), he said that the newer shock therapy is very different from the stuff that they did in the past. He said most people do not have permanent memory loss problems (a Boston hospital- one of the best for e.c.t. - maybe that makes a difference).
Diana, you take a lot of medication. I do too. Does any of it work at all for you? I am drug resistent and nothing works. I took as many as 14 anit-depressers a day and was still depressed.
I think I have been on everything out there. I am not manic depressive though, “just” depressed.
Good luck. It’s great you work so well with your doctor and he doesn’t just tell you what to do.
Thanks Cindy for supporting comments.
About memory loss, I´m not sure that I have got any. I even remember the initial anesthetic process and the moment I woke up. Perhaps there are some cognitive problems but I can´t really feel it. I have only got unipolar ECT and totally 6 treatments. Maybe problems occur later on?
Since last time I became depressive again and my doctor proposed one more ECT which I got with very good effect. My thought is now to try maintenance ECT (thanks Cindy) and, for now, continue whith my meds, Lithium, Lamictal, Efexor.
I feel more safe and content now.
Sorry I havent responded to all the helpful emails.
I am thankful to have found a community of sorts that at least knows what this is like. I don’t feel like I have the worst life in the world either.
(Oh, Diana - I am glad you have a good doc because you really rapid cycle.) My hospitalization was at McLean in Belmont,MA in the 60s and 70s.
I am currently on less meds, and my cognitive deficits and aphasia and memory problems have gotten
much much better. Dont know if it is due to feeling less depressed or because i have reduced my meds somewhat. Isnt this a crap shoot? I think it is amazing that any of us are alive.
I finally settled on just taking things
VERY easy, and not trying to make up for lost time or prove that i’m not worthless. This approach has been quite successful.
Hang in there, Ya’ll/ You’ll surely hear me crying in the near future.
The comments here are quite interesting and informative. My good friend Dr. Jay Whitlow has written a paper regarding the usage of convulsive treatments in ancient cultures. Dr. Whitlow has found evidence of some cultures that employed various techniques and chemicals to treat some of the more disturbed members of their societies. I will try and locate Dr. Jay Whitlow’s work as whitlow is quite a unique researcher in this area.
eric y
I am very much a believer of ECT and have been having treatments for over a year. I began getting migraine headaches and went to the doctor to find out that I have had 2 strokes. We don’t know that the ECT treatments had anything to do with it but I can’t cut that it happened around the time of treatments. Until further testing and diagnosis, they have decided not to do any treatments. It appears that my bloodpressure medication played a part in it and that I am having verispasms in my neck. They changed my BP medication that has helped to stop the spasms.
So it is up to me whether to continue with my treatments. I can tell that slowly I am falling and the depression and outbursts are coming back strong. I don’t know what to do. Any suggestions?
I just turned 40 and have suffered with extreme depression and bipolar disorder since I was a young teen. I have been hospitalized numerous times, but, as the years go by , so does the length of time between hospitalizations. I have not been in a hospital since 2003. I have been in a deep, dark depression for more than 8 weeks. I had suicidal thoughts which have thankfully subsided. I am on medications but they do not seem to work any longer, no matter how my psychiatrist titrates them. I finally felt I was at a palce last year that I could pursue my dream of going to college. I enrolled and for two semesters carried a 4.0. Eight weeks ago when my depression reached a debilitating point, I had to withdraw from all my classes. I do not associate with my friends, I am irritable, and the things I usually do, I do not do anymore. I feel immobilized and stuck in this depression.
My psychiatrist and my therapist have recommended ECT as an option. I am supposed to meet with a psychiatrist that actuallt performs ECT here in my area on December 5th. I am terrified. I have an amazing memory. Sometimes that is a good things, sometimes it’s not - but it’s still not something I want to lose. I don’t want to have a seizure, controlled or not. I am afraid that if I have ECT, I will no longer be able to learn at college and I will lose my dream. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to stay stuck in this depression, yet - after reading all I have about ECT - from various places- I just am not comfortable with what I am hearing.
If anyone has ANY advice, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks for having such a site to come to.
- Donna
Hi Donna,
I wanted to comment on my experience with ECT and learning. Yes, my memory was effected by the 25 treatments I had - there are holes/gaps in my memory (3 that I know of) plus a few instances during treatment where I couldn’t remember how to get to a certain hiking trail or friends house- these memories did come back - and I can easily get where I want to go now, but these things did happen to me, and scared me…and made me think…this sucks…I can’t believe this has happened…).
I am a Ph.D. scientist, so mental function is very important to me. While I did loose some memories, my ability to learn has not been altered by ECT. I learn just as well as ever, if not better. I am back on the job and learning very effectively.
In my experience, ECT is worth the costs/consquences/short term memory imparement. You do not lose your ability to learn.
Andrea
Andrea -
Thank you for your comments. It is reassuring to know you did not lose your ability to learn.
Wishing you the best~
Wow, I am very glad I found this page (while awaiting my membership approval). It offers a lot of points of view.
I am going in for my 16th (I think) treatment (all outpatient) on Monday. I had an aggressive start, about 3 per week for about 6 weeks, then they weaned me down to 1 every 3-4 weeks. Now I’m on maintenance. This all started in July. I’ve been suffering from severe depression for at least 10 years. Probably 30+ medications.
My husband sees a lot of improvement. I see some. Still a huge lack of motivation. I still take my oral meds, but have reduced them down to 3 or 4. To my knowledge, I have only had one bilateral treatment; did this ever kick my butt with recovery. I think I got better results from it, though. Does anybody have any input on uni vs. bi lateral? I know bi has more side effects, memory loss, etc., but are there any proven benefits of one over the other? If I can get better faster w/ the bi’s, then why not?
Two more questions:
1) How long does it take you all to recover? I’m usually out the entire day, sometimes 2. Is that severe?
2) HOW do you get over the SHAME?? This is the biggest secret (only my husband knows, and I’d probably try to hide it from him if he wasn’t my chauffer and nurse!)I’ve ever had…
Also, I can’t seem to find a remedy for the TERROR I feel before a treatment, either. The doc and staff are awesome, I come out feeling ok, but am just so freaked out days ahead of time (hello, already freaking and it’s 3 1/2 days away).
Best to you all…keep fighting
I have severe bipolar disorder and after many years of medication changes, I was able to get the mania under control. Unfortunately, I wasn’t so lucky with the depression. I tried every anti-depressant out there and got the same result…a manic episode.
I received a round of ECT treatments 2 years ago. I was terrified and didn’t even know this was an option. THANK GOD I did it or I don’t think I’d be here anymore. The effects were close to miraculous. I did have some memory loss, about 2 months of loss. After my third treatment, I was a different person. I actually felt “normal” for the first time that I could remember.
Now, facing a divorce, an ugly custody battle, and the holidays, I found myself severely depressed again. My doctors wanted me to go inpatient, but I saw no point, as we already know medications don’t work for me, so I suggested another round of ECT and they all agreed.
I just finished my third treatment and I’m already starting to feel better. It is not an easy option. Having to be at the hospital at 6am every-other morning, not being able to drive, the headaches & muscle aches, the memory loss, and the stigma. But it is all worth it for me (and my family).
Dani—I’m usually out a day or two as well. I don’t find it shameful. You are doing what you need to do to help yourself and there is nothing wrong with that. It’s not your fault you have this illness. However, I don’t announce it either. I am the VP of my kids’ PTA and they think I have pneumonia, except for those I am close to. I take Klonopin for anxiety and I sometimes need more to help with the fear right before a treatment.
Good Luck to all of you!
i have been receiving ECT since august , this treatment while it has effected my short term memory some ( wasnt very good b4 it) it has nothing short of been a complete miricle , i had tried all the pills to no avail , i had given up , i went in to the hospital last time beging for something diffrent to happen or i was going to comitt suicide4 after they let me out ( i knew how to play the game to get out ) , they started me on ect and it helped today 7 months later i feel human again ,not depressed i have a wonderfull future and i am happy , i cant say enought good about this but i felt i had to say something ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, David
david, your success story is so encouraging. if we only could do such a good match betwee patients and treatment all the time it would be great. my friend whitlow has heard from several people in the last month that have received ect and jay says this is verification that the treatment is still being actively used. jay whitlow and i appreciate your letting us all know of your great success. and anyway, all of us here seem to have short term memory issues most days!
eric y
Dear C.M I read all your advises and diagnoses through this page enthusiastically.I ve got some urgent and vital problems about myseLf about bpd that i can’t tell publicly and can’t deal with.Is there any way that u can contact me through msn or e-mail ? I would very much appreciate if u can advise me something about my problem.
as_c00l_as_ice@hotmail.com
SincereLy
Mike,
thanks for the coments , i am a beleiver in this treatment despite the memory issue , i am also a chronic pain sufferer and have wondered/ heard this treatment is being used for chronic pain treatment ???? does anyonje have any info on this if so i can be contacted at D_Turnbull1963@msn.com feel free to write even if it is for other reasons i have been thru some pretty bad times and would love to offer support to others going thru what i have been thru ,,,,,,, thanks Dave
Hi, Mike–
I am honored my thoughts have been useful. However, I am not a therapist, so I am not the best bet if there is something urgent going on. I recommend talking with a real therapist– not an academe like me. If it is an emergency, and especially if you need help keeping yourself (or another loved one) safe, please please please phone your therapist– and if you don’t have a therapist, then your regular MD is a good second choice. (An emergency room is third choice.)
That said, I will be happy to offer my thoughts on whatever you do feel comfortable posting, and I very sincerely wish things will improve for you, and improve soon.
For BPD, research supports DBT as the best treatment.
Hang in there and try to be gentle to yourself and kind to the universe.
Sincerely,
C. M.
Cindy,
I hadn’t been reading for a while. How are you? How are things going?
Sincerely,
C. M.
Dear C.M
I don’t have the chance to talk to a theraphist or psychiatrist.That’s why i needed your help.I just need some advises.I know that academe like you don’t have expertise on such an issue.But really it s not something i feel comfy posting here.I would very much expect you to understand my circumstance…
Hello to everyone that is reading this site. It helps me whenever I get down to read the support I receive.
I had 2 strokes since November and I have’nt had any ECT treatments. I am scared to have them. My husband gives me shots of geodon to help bring me out of my dark moods. I was struggleing last week, but not enough to have ECT’s. My doctor put me back on carbatrol to help and if that doesn’t work, then my only help is to go back to having ECT’s. I know they work, but I am scared and think they may be the reason for the strokes even though my doctors don’t think so.
So for now, I am doing ok without the ECT’s (after having them every 3 weeks for 1 1/2 years. Keep in touch and good luck to everyone who is continuing to deal with the depression we all have been through.
Cindy
Hello everyone… I’ve found this site in an attempt to understand what ECT really is and the pros and cons of the procedure.
My mom had been scheduled for ECT for the last 2 weeks but haven’t completed the treatment yet. I am scared to death for my mother. She is 64 years old and went through a horrible depression 10 years ago. She attempted suicide several times, almost suceeding in her last attempt of setting herself on fire.
She has been non-medicated and her “normal” self for the last ten years. Dec. 16th she started acting like she did when I was a kid (I’m 23 now). The doctors say they have tried all medications and nothing is working and that she is in “Psychotic Depression”. I’m nothing close to a doctor but I can’t imagine that in 45 days that they’ve tried “everything”.
I would appreciate any advice on whether or not to have the ECT performed or not. Personally, I can’t stand the thought of my mom sustaining memory loss or brain damage. They also told her that because she does not have good teeth that her teeth may break off.
Please help!!!! I don’t know what to do!!!
I have recently received ECT and I am very happy that I got it. I was hospitalized for 2 months and they could not improve my mood with any means.
My doctor came to me and told me about the ECT and gave me a sheet about the facts on it.
I had never heard about it before and I did not see the harm in giving it a try.
I received a series of 12 and I felt better on the 4th. While I was receiving them there was only 3 other people that were also getting them we all felt better and now that they are over I feel as though I got my life back.
I was informed that ECT is not a forever fix and that maintenance is required and I have no problems what so ever going back in to get a series every once in a while. The reason why I wanted to leave a post is because I feel that ECT is one of those procedures that will always cause conflicts everywhere just like abortion, it’s something that you yourself need to make on your own. I never had the opportunity to research it prior since I never left the hospital before getting it. I was informed that it may cause some short term memory loss, but I never had any. I am grateful for it I know truly that if I had not received the ECT I might have given up on my life.
I am not a patient of ECT but a college student doing some research on the treatment for a speech. I found this site through google and have been reading and watching the information, which is very helpful. I can’t possibly say I understand what it’s like to go through any of this because I don’t but you are all very brave people and I admire that.
I guess what I’m trying to say is thanks for all the information and opinions! It’s helped a lot. I was skeptical at first of how much information would be out there about this topic and there’s obviously a lot more than I thought.
Is there ant research linking Alzheimer’s and ECT in middle age ??
Please point me to any sources
Thank you
Isn’t that what ECT is all about ? Memory loss? To be able to forget those things in your head that torment you? I have had depression for 21 years. I have taken different meds and therapy.
It seems that nothing works for me. I have severe anxiety and my mind will not let me rest. I want to stop the racing thoughts of guilt and fear that haunt me. My doctor has recommended ECT and I had my first visit with the doctor this week. He said I was a candidate for ECT because of the deep rooted things from my childhood. Very disfuntional family. I rarely leave the house anymore and life has no joy or pleasure for me.
I have suicidal thoughts often and attempted once.
I have 3 weeks to make up my mind and now I am very reluctant. I do not want to be a vegetable either..Very confused now after reading….
I have been depressed since I was a child. If you see pictures of me I don’t smile in any of them. I met all the criteria for a depressed child except a physical response. From age 16 on I have had many major episodes. My last one has really been since 11/86 to now, except for 3/00 to 11/02 when Effexor worked. I have a strong genetic background. A cousin my age is very depressed and two male cousins on the same side of the family committed suicide. My father was depressed and his sister and another cousin. They are all on my father’s side. Plus I have a schizophrenic aunt on my mother’s side. Anyway, since I have been considering ECT, I would like to Know if there has been any research done on the kinds of depression that respond more favorably to ECT than others?
Bonnie,
I am sorry that you have had depression for all those years. I to was depressed as a child starting around 4 yrs old. I do ECT treatments every 3 weeks to keep me from racing thoughts and suicidal tendencies. I still get depressed sometimes and thats when I get an extra shot of geodon. ECTs do not make you a vegtable, they do make you forget some things that happen during the first cople of weeks, but it slowly comes back, but is worth losing the racing thoughts.
I am here to support you in any decision you make and want you to know that you can write to me or anyone in this site if you have any questions or need help.
Cindy
You DO NO WANT ECT!; How can brain damage be good for you. I had a series of 10 in 1967 and I still don’t know what I’ve lost and found very little of what I did lose. ECT is NOT the answer. It only surpresses your feelings which will resurface sooner or later and be 10x worse. Problems need to be talked about and worked through,Brain damage is not the answer. THe pain I
received mentally physically (yes it hurt llike hell) and emotionally is horrendous. Don’t do it.! You can get the same effect by getting hit in the head with a steel pipe!
Hi. I have also suffered from depression for 15 years or so..Prozac did work for me for about 8 yrs and then stopped. Since then, I have been on many “cocktails”. I’ve pretty much taken every med out there.. I was never diagnosed as bipolar in the past, but my psychopharmachologist diagnosed me 2yrs ago with “bipolar II”. The last time I saw him (2 wks ago), he upped my lamictal dosage significantly and told me if that didn’t start to give me relief, we would have to have a “serious” talk about what the next step would be.. I think the lamictal actually effects my rememberance of words as I speak.. I am often at a loss of words!!!
He has suggested MAOI’s a couple of times and thinks it would be the best med for my type of depression..(rejection sensitivity, mood swings, depression, anxiety, etc..) However, I am concerned about the food restrictions and the side effects..
The other option is ECT..I am really leaning towards it, as I heard it was helpful in many cases. However, when it comes to memory loss, can it be where you don’t even remember who people are? (friends, family, etc…) Would I remember my boyfriend, sister? Or is it the type of memory loss in which you don’t remember incidents and past experiences? That is a major worry..Will it effect my sense of humor and my personality??? Would it have any sexual side effects which is often prominent with other antidepressants? Please help me understand.. at this point I am desperate for real answers, as I lost all hope.
Thanks,
sharon
ECT in 1967 was a bit diffrent then it is now in 2008, I do agree on Talking about your problems but when you are so depressed that you don’t have a light at the end of your tunnel you really don’t care about talking, all you want is your problems over.
I really didn’t want to do the ECT, but I had no will to my life left, ECT did end up giving it back to me.
Now that I’m stabablized i’m in therapy that i could never of even attempeted befor the ECT
But even though it worked it’s not just shocking your brain, your getting put under, and that’s a major risk, and complications happen all the time
ECT really, really should be a last resort, but never not there for the ones who want it.
I have spent 10 years trying every type of antidepressant made to no avail. My doctor has been urging me to get ECT for a couple years now. I have voiced my concerns over the memory loss and possible brain injury, but she feels like today’s ECT is much safer than it use to be. In reading the posts it is difficult to tell who has received bilateral ECT and who has received unilateral ECT. I was interested in knowing if those who have received unilateral ECT recently are still experiencing the same memory loss and brain damage. I would really like to enjoy my life again, but I don’t think I would be happy with permanent brain difficulties either. Thanks in advance.
I have written to this website before and now I need some advice.
I have maintenance treatments every three weeks and I have asked my doctor over and over to stop them but he thinks I still need them and said for at least until I am stable for 6 months. My last episode was in February which leaves me until August. I trust my doctor but want to stop ect. He’ll probably drop me as his patient if I go against what he has said. At this point, I would like to stop them to see if I could live without them. Any advice?
Cindy
I feel so bad for you
I know one thing for sure that a doctor can not drop you for stoping ECT
He can however if you refuse ECT and then medication or whatever else he has suggested as an alternative, but not for just the ECT.
I’m not sure where your from, or how you go about getting a psyc doc, but I had kind of the same problem, my doctor has a different approach he wants to take with me and hs told me he will drop me if I don’t take it,
Where I’m at they are in extremly short demand and if you even have one your considered lucky i guess
Some how I found out, from people who I’m in DBT class with that there is a procedure you have to go through
I called my doctor, my GP and told her my problem and she has decided to re-refer me to a new one, luckly the new psych doc agreed to take me on.
but of course there is a 3 month wait with her
What i was suppose to do before my doctor was to, legally?? I’m not sure if thats the right term
but anyways was, i was suppose to fire my doctor, claiming, differences of opinions before ohip would cover a new doctor for me
she did it anyways for me cause she knew that he would then refuse to see me if he found out that i was gonna leave him, so she’s letting me wait till I get in to see the new doctor.
Best of luck to you and remember that a doctor can’t pressure you into ECT and can’t drop you cause you changed your mind about it and no longer wish to receive that form of treatment
Dear Cindy,
I just read your last posts, and you are in my thoughts.
Treatment of non-psychotic, non-suicidal, non-dangerous people should be voluntary. Considering that you have had strokes, I think it is reasonable for you to wish to try to go off of ECT. I think explaining that you feel coerced and that you think that although ECT has been helpful for you in the past, ECT may have played a role in your strokes, and also agreeing that if you become suicidal you are willing to resume treatments, should be adequate. If not, then it may be a good time to transition to another doctor.
I am very sorry that you are having a rough time.
You are a thoughtful and kind person– it shows in your posts– and I wish I had a magic wand to make things better.
Sincerely,
C.M.